Comair exit poll

[av8tor4239]

Companies don't sit idle, they either grow or shrink. This is a way for us to continue in the what I would consider to be the right direction.

Please tell me why you think that you as a pilot group are responsible for that growth.. How do you figure that you taking concessions will secure growth.. Is is not your managments job to secure growth. Especially when you are wholly owned.. You are not skywest or chitaco.. You are embraced by mother delta a wholly owned company.

 

[JI Gone OH]

How do you figure that you taking concessions will secure growth..

The proposed L.O.A. (which I have right in front of me) states that we will take delivery and put into revenue service an ADDITIONAL thirty-five aircraft as follows:

1. By December 31, 2006, we will have acquired an additional 18 aircraft, including at least 8 certified at no less than 70 seats. It further states that the fleet shall consist of and will be maintained at no less than 182 aircraft by December 31, 2006.

2. By December 31, 2007, we will have acquired an additional 26 aircraft, including at least 16 certified at no less than 70 seats. It further states that the fleet shall consist of and will be maintained at no less than 190 aircraft by December 31, 2007.

3. In concludes to say that we will have acquired all 35 ADDITIONAL aircraft by March 31, 2008.

Now I have paraphrased a bit so as to not bore you with the language. Our fleet now sits idle at 164 aircraft. There is verbage that allows them to temporarily reduce the fleet size to 193 aircraft (I am assuming that is for maintenance reasons), but I gave you the bulk of it.

Seems pretty black and white to me. Hope this helps...

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Just watch out for that pesky force majeur' clause.

We had:

#1. Minimum block hours
#2. Minimum captain positions
#3. Minimum fleet size
#4. Successorship language
#5. and No-Furlough language

in the US Airways contract prior to 09/11 and they were still able to furlough the first 1149 pilots due to a force majeur trigger event.

 

[JI Gone OH]

Just watch out for that pesky force majeur' clause.

We had:

#1. Minimum block hours
#2. Minimum captain positions
#3. Minimum fleet size
#4. Successorship language
#5. and No-Furlough language

in the US Airways contract prior to 09/11 and they were still able to furlough the first 1149 pilots due to a force majeur trigger event.

There are always loop holes aren't there. How are things with you Bro? ;-)

 

[Flying Horses]

Just a few thoughts here.

Second, for those of you who think that the new pay matrix will sustain us as the highest paid regional pilots, you are mistaken. A couple of pilots posted the figures on the CMR APLA message boards. Here's a summary:

The pay example given to us in the LOA shows the pay for a current 5 year Captain. A 5 year Captain will earn 68.13/hr and will be frozen at that rate. When the freeze is over in June 2007, this Captain will go to the next longevity step, or 6 year pay (70.23/hr).

If you compare our 6 year pay to other 6 year pay rates for our peer airlines in 2007, we are indeed at the top of the industry pay rates.

But wait! If you don't drink the Cool Aid, you will realize that the 6 year pay rate at Comair will only come after 8 YEARS OF SERVICE! Compare the pay rate for 8 YOS at Comair to 8 YOS at our peer airlines in 2007 and we are almost at the bottom of the industry for pay rates. Don't let JC and Freddy Krueger fool you into thinking that our pay will be somthing to aspire to.

C425Driver

2 Curious Questions:

1) When the freeze is over in 6/07, do all pilots get immediately bumped up to the next longevity step, or do you still wait till your anniversary hire date? Let's say for example a pilot hired in December. According to your example, would that pilot still be making $68.13 till December, then, finally go to $70.23?

2) Also, what would today's 5-year captain be making in June 2007, if the freeze did NOT happen, and you continued to get both longevity Date of Service increases AND contractual yearly increases?

 

[Pez D. Spencer]

Beer? Yes, please. And keep 'em coming.

I've plopped down behind the bar on many an overnight (with more than 12 hours, of course) and had a beer (or 6) with other flight crews. I sat next to a Mesa FO who was happy to have to be flying but loathing his contract. Nice guy. And I didn't tell him he was a piece of dirt for voting on that contract. I don't care how he voted.

I sat with some XJET guys and gave them an "at-a-boy" for their new contract. They still had issues with it, as a matter of fact, the captain had voted no. But, guess what -- I didn't care about that either. I've run into other XJET folks and have had them give the Comair group a collective at-a-boy.

They voted for their own reasons, and at the end of the day, I still have a job. I've read the posts on this thread and many are rediculous. As mentioned in an earlier post or few posts (I forget), we now know who are friends are. No one. If you signed on to work for your company with your current contract or voted yes for your contract, don't complain to me about it -- again, I don't care. You made your choice. Wave our contract around, pound your chest, and accept something less, then you're the fool. America West voted on a contract that passed by something in the low 50's, lets say 53%. Well, 47% of the guys there probably weren't too happy... the pitfalls of democracy. Point is, you don't get to choose our future, unless you're one of us.

If WE, and I'm not talking just me, vote NO, I will be happy to be part of this Comair pilot group. My pay will stay first rate (not that I care what you make, I don't), my contract will stay first rate, eventually my airline might shrink, and I may be furloughed. I will not be the first furlough, but I will most likely get the axe eventually. By then, hopefully, I will have had the foresight to have found another job. But, it will have been an honor to have flown with one of the only pilot groups with a sack.

If WE, and I'm not talking just me, vote YES I will be happy to be part of this pilot group. We'll get some planes, some upgrades (and yes that affects my future), some job security/new jobs for folks on the street, and the bottom line at Delta will be helped by a puny amount. And I hope one of you has the guts to come up to me and tell me I should be ashamed to be a part of this pilot group. You can post it here all day long, because I pretty much don't have time to look at this board... but, please, please, if it does pass, please come tell me to my face that you think we're a joke. 'Cause then the beer will be on you (and I hope you have another shirt -- nah that's alcohol abuse, and a waste of 3 bucks, forget it -- I'll throw the bar snacks at you).

Whatever the case, it is our decision. Individually at first, then as a group. It is quite clear to me that I shouldn't worry about having friends (in airline terms) because it is evident we have no support. We have ASA pilots bashing us and Delta "share the pain" and "you didn't hire our furloughs" pilots calling us names too. Maybe it's Atlanta, I don't know, but thanks for the words of wisdom and support. Take care.

And if you really do care, the general buzz around flight line (not the exit poll) is pretty much NO. Or the YES people are being awfully quiet. We'll see next week I imagine. By the way (and these are honest questions - not flame attempts), if you guys at ASA are that darn unified, then why haven't you already struck? You guys were saying a year or so ago that December '04 was your plan, right? At least some progress -- how long have you guys been working on this contract?

 

[brokea$$pilot]

For Delta/comair/asa Pilots

ITS SAD THAT U GUYS HAVE TO TAKE PAYCUTS IN ORDER TO GROW BUT IN MY OPINION ITS WORTH IT. THE AIRLINE INDUSTRY IN THE U.S. IS THE WAY IT IS AND ITS NOT FUN WATCHING YOUR WH@RE COUNTERPARTS TAKE FLYING THAT SHOULD BE DONE BY DELTA. THE WAY THINGS ARE GOING IT WOULD BE WISE FOR THE PILOT GROUPS AT DELTA,COMAIR,ASA TO INTEGRATE. OTHERWISE THERE WILL BE ANOTHER USAIRWAYS PANDEMIC AND WE ALL KNOW WHAT A MESS IT IS OVER THERE-UNFORTUNATELY FOR ALL THOSE WONDERFUL PEOPLE WHO WORK THERE. THE WORD WH@RE WAS REFERENCED TO THE CHIHUHUA TYPES. COMPARE THEM WITH THE COMAIR /ASA PILOTS AND YOULL SEE WHAT IM TALKIN ABOUT. SECOND CLASS AIRLINE PILOTS-THE CHIHUHUA PILOTS. HOW CAN THEY EVEN BE PROUD OF THEMSELVES.

 

[C425Driver]

2 Curious Questions:

1) When the freeze is over in 6/07, do all pilots get immediately bumped up to the next longevity step, or do you still wait till your anniversary hire date? Let's say for example a pilot hired in December. According to your example, would that pilot still be making $68.13 till December, then, finally go to $70.23?

2) Also, what would today's 5-year captain be making in June 2007, if the freeze did NOT happen, and you continued to get both longevity Date of Service increases AND contractual yearly increases?

1. If I understand the LOA correctly, when the freeze is over we all all move to the next longevity step and we will not wait for our anniversary. So in the example that you are asking about, the pilot would go to 70.23 in June. Also, if we do not have a new contract in place by Jan 1, 2008, the company will give us all a whole 2% raise. Golly!

2. If the freeze doesn't happen, todays 5 year captain will be an 8 year captain in June 2007. The rate would be 78.01 (instead of the 70.23 that Freddy is offering). That's almost a 10% cut in what we were supposed to make.

Thanks Fred!

C425Driver

 

[~~~^~~~]

With the cut ASA is Comair -1%. Coincidence?

What makes you think there will not be another cut?

Why do you guys trust Buttrell to provide airplanes? Does Buttrell run Delta?

Doesn't anyone there realize that ASA and CHQ are at their full capacity to train pilots. Why do you Comair pilots believe that concessions are necessary for growth?

 

[jarhead]

Why do you guys trust Buttrell to provide airplanes? Does Buttrell run Delta?

I don't believe trust has anything to do with it. If the planes do not come, the original contract remains intact, does it not? Am I missing something when you imply that "trust" is what the vote is about? I thought the vote was on a legal contract with obligations on both sides to hold up.