Comair/ASA rumor....

[~~~^~~~]

I was around when ASA was making its decision on an E120 replacement. The DO328J was popular due to its short field performance, but unpopular due to speed, range and cost. The E135/145 series were popular due to operating cost, but the cabin was thought to be undesireable to pax and it would require separate mx and training facilities. The CRJ was the most expensive option, but it was fast and had a cabin that the airline thought a premium fare passenger would like. Probably the single biggest determining factor was the fact that we already had RJ's and could save a ton in training and mx costs.

I researched some old materials from the Paris Air Show and came up with direct operating costs of $1,324.91 for the CRJ-100 and $1,403.27 for the E145. These match well with figures I have seen recently that I can not post in a public forum. The fixed costs of the aircraft were $2,798,814 for the CRJ and $2,420,189 for the ERJ. Taken in total, the cost per seat mile (before depreciation) on the ERJ was $.22 and $.23 on the CRJ.

Bottom line, there is not much difference in the bottom line. The difference is in the operation and if CHQ scales up, they will have to spend more in the infastructure of their airline. I also think their pilots will try to raise their standard of living in this next contract and we ASA pilots support them in their endeavor.

 

[Skull-One]

No Gloat Zone

You gloating Jason?

What kind of response are you expecting from the Com/ASA pilots?

If I were gloating I would be saying, "We are the best in the business and you guys suck." I'm not. I think most pilot groups are comparable in terms of quality. Comair and ASA folks are d a m n e d fine people. There is no doubt about it. CHQ's pilot group is, IMHO, one of the best in the business itself. But that alone isn't why we get the contracts we have been. I still contend it is our airplane. Short term at the very least, our airplane is cheaper to acquire.

I am not gloating at all. Far from it. I have many friends in this business at ASA and Comair. We went to flight school together or I learned from them at the Academy. I have no desire to hurt these people or brag about my good fortune at their expense. This is a candid discussion, not a bragging session. I'm simply posting my thoughts because that's what a *DISCUSSION* Board is for. I'm not in this to be jerk, just being frank with my (uninformed) opinions.

Look, we're in a slow economy. Carriers that operate on lower costs thrive during bad times and suffer during good. The boom times for Comair and ASA are not over, just in a temporary lull.

Just remember....going off the point some...Comair hasn't always been owned by Delta. They were an independent contractor once just as we are. The day could come where CHQ/ASA/CMR are the WOs being whipsawed by REPUBLIC and MESA. One never knows in this industry.

I wish everyone the best, no matter what color the tail on their airplane is.

 

[Skull-One]

If the ERJ was a better bird, cheaper to aquire, cheaper to operate, and lasted just as long then by far, everyone would be flying the ERJ. Take a look around.....this is not the case.

It is a better bird, but that is a seperate argument. =)

You have way oversimplified your case here. The CRJ had a headstart on the ERJ by several years. Companies that bought the CRJ have sunk a lot of money into training crews and building infrastructure to support it. In their case it makes no sense to dump the CRJ for the ERJ because the savings on the latter won't make up for the expense of switching fleet types.

The ERJ is much cheaper to own and fly, and it is a purpose-built airliner. Even the oldest ones around are doing just fine performance-wise.

I'll oversimplify my argument just for fun. CRJ vs. ERJ... It's like comparing an F-14 to an F-18. The former is faster and sleeker and costs more in every department. It also breaks more. The latter is slower and more efficient, but it's more modular, breaks less often, and is easier to fix when it does. It's also cheaper.

If the CRJ were the better bird, Embraer would not have sold nearly 700 ERJs, with more coming out of the factory every single day. Canadair had a monopoly on the Regional Jet, but Embraer one-upped them. I think it is that simple.

As for costs, I can tell you from casual observation that the CRJ burns a lot more gas than the ERJ. That alone is a huge factor in the cost differential.

$0.22 vs $0.23 doesn't seem to wash, but that's still five percent cheaper.

 

[Treme]

I dont get it then Jason,

You really did not answer my question. What is it that you're trying to express to the Com/ASA pilots by your participation on this thread. I've re-read the entire thing and I dont see anything you've said that is anything more than glorified cheerleading for Chautauqua.

What is it that you're trying to say?

 

[Skull-One]

How much more clearly can I state it? Everyone else in this thread has followed my argument, why can't you?

We did not get a DAL contract because of our slave wages. We got it because of our airplane (and the fact that we have a decent product to go with it): it's cheap, capable, and we have delivery positions. It's that basic...

Stop blaming our salaries for our recent successes in adding flying. That is unfair and incorrect.

 

[Treme]

and my point, Jason, is that what you are saying has absolutely no bearing on the topic of this thread.

outside of the fact that your airline may cost jobs at ASA/COM, i'd venture to guess that nobody (on this particular thread) cares about your theories regarding the EMB145's cost effectiveness in comparison to the Canadair.

 

[Skull-One]

...[ I ] 'd venture to guess that nobody (on this particular thread) cares about your theories regarding the EMB145's cost effectiveness in comparison to the Canadair.

The responses to this thread do not bear your theory out. At any rate, I have attempted to set the record straight. Stop libeling CHQ and I will stop butting into your threads.

Why do you insist on calling me "Jason" any way? I have never used that nick here...

 

[Treme]

I am not libeling Chautauqua -- but i'm not going to continue to divert this thread from its topic. If you want to start a new thread or message me privately feel free to do so.

 

[sleepy]

I think ASA chose the CRJ based on our long-term experience with the EMB-120. In the long run, I think the CRJ will fare better the the EMB jet. That is just my opinion based on my experience with the EMB-120.