Colgan and Skywest pilots that voted no

[Afraid to Fly]

You guys/gals that voted no would give your left nut to get a job at a union represented carrier such as FEDEX, UPS, SWA, Continental, etc.

Do you really think you are good enough not to vote it in at Skywest and Colgan but it is 'ok to have' at a career type place?

Spineless thinking if you ask me.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

It not about me... it is about all of us....

If we don't help all pilots UP we will all go down....

But how do you help someone who won't help themselves....

 

[cjcpilot]

I don't want to go to a major because they have a union, it doesn't even factor in to my decision of where to go. If it were that important to me, I'd be at a unionized regional. Honestly, to me, it doesn't really matter.

If I had a problem working at Colgan or felt that I needed protecting from management, I'd walk and go somewhere else. The truth is I have a good QOL, I make more than enough money to live on, and I'm getting good flight experience.

Yes, things could be better, but a union does not guarantee better. During our ALPA drive, it seemed that none of the pilots I talked to that had been at a unionized carrier before supported it (both management and non-management). I had an open mind to arguments from both sides and voted yes, but I'm not all that heartbroken over the outcome.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

It is not about YOU! If all you can think about is you then that is all you will have.... good luck...

 

[cjcpilot]

I never said it was about me alone, but unfortunatly, I don't think it is ethical for me to speak about other people's motives and beliefs. In responding to the issue posted, I can only use my own experiences, decisions, and thoughts to respond. I can not speak for the pilot group at large, because I am not the pilot group at large.

I did vote yes because I did think about what benefits to others there might be, even if it ended up either not benefiting me at all or even detracting from my experience here. If I only thought of myself, I would have been a solid no.

 

[Troutbait]

How is not having a union spineless and how is it pulling down the industry? This downward spiral is occurring with or without unions. Unions allowed scope to be breeched and unions can't protect against bankruptcy. So why should we have voted in a union when our management really ain't that bad? I am proud of my no vote and my company. It is funny how pissed you are that we didn't vote it in. You think it is because the young pilots don't want to threaten their upgrade. When, think for a sec. You wouldn't be worried about that if you didn't know that it could affect it. That is a good thing? Besides it wasn't just the young guys who didn't want it in. It was a mix of everyone. It is because we don't want what we think they can offer us. Plain and simple.

 

[michael707767]

I work at a major represented by ALPA, and given the chance I would vote no. I didn't come here because they are ALPA....I came here inspite of them being ALPA.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

How is not having a union spineless and how is it pulling down the industry?

Becuase you have no objective safety structure in place. No one to tell the company...' no, that is unsafe...we don't operate jets like that..'

Becuase you no have no code of ethics... A profession requires it.

Because your payrates are based on union contracts.

Because changes happen nationally and internationally that effect you yet you have no say.

This isn't new information.. you and your kind just choose to ignore it when using logic to consider the consequences of your action...

Like most ALPA members as well.. you are only thinking about you. A selfish action....

This downward spiral is occurring with or without unions.

And unions are negotiating with thier companies to mitigate the changes... are you?

Unions allowed scope to be breeched and unions can't protect against bankruptcy.

Much of the loses in the BK shams are being returned... if and when SKYW goes into BK what sort of protections will you have?

So why should we have voted in a union when our management really ain't that bad?

They have chipped away at your pay and work rules... they have done it subtley... but if you think that is defined as "ain't that bad" then you get what you deserve..

I am proud of my no vote and my company.

Of course you are. And we will continue to defend your job and our profession. ALPA will continue to fight on CapHill and at ICAO for the betterment of Air Line Pilots and of course you will benefit from it... And you'll be proud of freeloading..

It is funny how pissed you are that we didn't vote it in.

Yes. Human emotion. After anger comes fear. Fear of how changes at SKWY might effect us all... Changes that you have no control over.. Changes that we will have to fight because our companies will say... 'Look at what SKYW is doing.. we need to do the same to compete....'

You think it is because the young pilots don't want to threaten their upgrade. When, think for a sec. You wouldn't be worried about that if you didn't know that it could affect it. That is a good thing? Besides it wasn't just the young guys who didn't want it in. It was a mix of everyone. It is because we don't want what we think they can offer us. Plain and simple.

Great... the freeloaders are a mix of everyone...

Right now ALPA is working for the SKYW pilots..

• Fixing the FMLA law

• Making FFDO program better

• Fixing BK law

• Working on runway incursions and contam runways

• Working on fatigue

• Working flight time and duty time

• Working on dedicated crew access at airports instead of TSA

• Working the MPL issue.

• Working on Criminalization

• Working on Open Skies/Foreign Control

All of these issues above will effect SKYW pilots... and what are the SKYW pilots doing in return? The finger....


Here is a USAToday article on Fatigue... Let me know if you see the SKYW pilots as part of the solution...

WASHINGTON — Hundreds of pilots, mechanics and air-traffic controllers reported that fatigue led them to make mistakes on the job, including six cases where pilots fell asleep in midflight, a USA TODAY analysis of safety records since 2003 shows.
The reports show that crews flew to the wrong altitude, botched landings and missed radio calls, according to an aviation safety database compiled by NASA. In one case, a pilot and co-pilot fell asleep while descending toward Dulles International Airport near Washington, D.C., the NASA records say.

The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) will address the issue of fatigue Thursday at its annual hearing to adopt its "most wanted" safety enhancements. While the incidents represent only a small percentage of the more than 40 million airline flights during the period, the NTSB has linked pilot fatigue to 10 commercial aviation accidents. The crashes, all since 1993, killed 260 people.

Pilot unions say fatigue is one of the top safety threats in aviation. The incidents are partially the result of changes in work rules imposed by financially troubled airlines that have put added pressures on pilots to fly longer hours, unions say.

"We see these as signs of pushing pilots to go beyond their limits," said Capt. John Prater, president of the Air Line Pilots Association, the nation's largest pilot's union.

The NTSB has for two decades called on the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) to tighten restrictions on how many hours pilots can work each day. Airline crews can work up to 16 hours a day, possibly more if a flight is delayed. Research by the NTSB and others shows sharply higher risks of pilot mistakes and accidents after long shifts or periods without normal sleep.

The FAA has tried several times to revise pilot work rules since the 1990s, but the efforts failed each time under opposition from airlines and pilot unions.

Airlines recognize that tired pilots are not effective and have devoted considerable resources to the issue, said Basil Barimo, vice president of operations and safety at the Air Transport Association, the carriers' Washington trade group. In recent years, most carriers have boosted fatigue training and strengthened policies allowing pilots to decline to fly if they feel tired, Barimo said.

Frontier Airlines acknowledged Wednesday that two of its pilots fell asleep on a 2004 red-eye flight from Baltimore to Denver. One pilot awoke to "frantic calls" from a controller, according to a report on the incident in the NASA Aviation Safety Reporting System.

The NASA system contains 750 incidents since 2003 in which aviation workers cited fatigue-related incidents. Pilots were involved in 650 of those cases. USA TODAY also found four additional cases in which pilots reported falling asleep. None caused an accident.

 

[Formula 1]

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[siucavflight]

I still dont get it, they voted no. We dont work there, why should we care? They are not undercutting anyone, WHO CARES?