Colgan Air crew experience.

[Mookie]

Experience in terms of total time doesn't mean anything. I've flown with 20 year captains that can't land a 737 within 50' of the centerline, and I've flown with 200 hrs copilots who were just blessed with ability.

I just had the great pleasure of flying with a guy who had just come off the MD-80 at Alaska. Had been on it for 18 years and hadnt been north of seattle (except for OE) at all. He had 3 landings in the last two months, and none up in SE alaska. You got it, first trip together we get ANC SIT, JNU, SEA together. Want to know how this guy got my utmost respect? Instead of puffing his chest out and telling me how "experienced" he was with his 15k hrs, he said "dude...I'd like to say I'm comfortable up here, but I"m not. I'm going to need your help. Cool?" and he meant it. Toughest day of weather I've ever flown in, but instead of dividing along lines of our TT experience, he had the wherewithall to, god forbid, trust someone who had more "experience" in a different type of flying.

I guess my point is, don't have a ********************ing ego in a cockpit. it WILL bite you in the ass someday.

Mookie

 

[jmreii]

There is "flying by the book", then there is "flying by experience". When the book goes out the window and all there is left is experience, or lack there of then trouble sets in.(not pointing directly at anyone) Where are numbers for an aircraft derived? From test pilots in a controlled environment. With 10000+ hrs and 6 type ratings I have been through a lot. I know "experience" has saved my bacon once or twice, ie wx radar failing right after T.O. in storms. I have been at companies when we lost an aircraft and crew. The thing that is going to come out of this is new info that will make the rest of us better pilots. It is a time to learn and not repeat. God speed to all, blue skies, flying the "Heavy" in the sky...

Bluefin is right, now sing it with me, you cannot beat the experience!

 

[OurMoney1]

They had every right to be in those seats. They went through the training that is designed to weed the weak and award the capable.

My nephew got hired by American Eagle this past summer with 600 TT, they put him in the right seat of the companies 70 seater...Do the math, it is what it is.

Colgan has a competitive training program, they wouldn't have put two people in a modern turboprop that were a risk to the operation.

 

[WSurf]

Experience in terms of total time doesn't mean anything. I've flown with 20 year captains that can't land a 737 within 50' of the centerline, and I've flown with 200 hrs copilots who were just blessed with ability.

I just had the great pleasure of flying with a guy who had just come off the MD-80 at Alaska. Had been on it for 18 years and hadnt been north of seattle (except for OE) at all. He had 3 landings in the last two months, and none up in SE alaska. You got it, first trip together we get ANC SIT, JNU, SEA together. Want to know how this guy got my utmost respect? Instead of puffing his chest out and telling me how "experienced" he was with his 15k hrs, he said "dude...I'd like to say I'm comfortable up here, but I"m not. I'm going to need your help. Cool?" and he meant it. Toughest day of weather I've ever flown in, but instead of dividing along lines of our TT experience, he had the wherewithall to, god forbid, trust someone who had more "experience" in a different type of flying.

I guess my point is, don't have a ********************ing ego in a cockpit. it WILL bite you in the ass someday.

Mookie

Very true Mookie. Some of my best trips with new 300hr FO's are the ones that get in the plane and look at me and say, "Listen, I have 300hrs of Total Time and if you can help me in anyway it would be most apprieciated." These guy/gals are the ones really wanted to learn and become better.

The ones that will kill you are the Chuck Yeager wannbe's that have 300hrs. The one's that huff and puff when you tell them what there doing is wrong.

 

[WSurf]

They had every right to be in those seats. They went through the training that is designed to weed the weak and award the capable.

Anyone can be trained to pass a checkride. Training can sometimes weed out the weak? Sure, but there are many that fall threw the cracks.

Training and Line flying are different, and if you don't think so you're fooling yourself.

 

[filejw]

They had every right to be in those seats. They went through the training that is designed to weed the weak and award the capable.

My nephew got hired by American Eagle this past summer with 600 TT, they put him in the right seat of the companies 70 seater...Do the math, it is what it is.

Colgan has a competitive training program, they wouldn't have put two people in a modern turboprop that were a risk to the operation.

You are missing original posters meaning. Rigorous training programs are great but don't replace experience. In this case how many winter have these guys flown thru, how much time in a TP of any kind.

 

[www.]

How was he not following Company SOP's? There wasn't any report of Severe Icing in the area.

Ok. What would you do if your a/c encountered severe icing? Usually, MPE, it hits you hard enough to let you know something is not right.

 

[Lynxman]

Being a new pilot with 300 TT and eager to learn is great. Nobody want's a cocky 300 hr new pilot, but the fact is experience will definitely win out over a new pilot eager to learn.

 

[skiandsurf]

Here is a link the the ACA J41 at CMH.

Similarities...

Both crashed on approach in icing conditions.
Both had captains with low time in type.
Both had the AP on.

This ACA crew got a stall warning and ...

CA said, "what did you do".
FO said, "I didnt do nothing".

No recovery or movement of throttles.

Then another stall warning and the CA only increased the throttles up to half power....not max power and recover.

http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001206X00616&key=1

 

[satpak77]

lynxman who is that in your avatar

 

[Bruno82]

Anyone can be trained to pass a checkride. Training can sometimes weed out the weak? Sure, but there are many that fall threw the cracks.

Training and Line flying are different, and if you don't think so you're fooling yourself.

I'm pretty sure they have to pass IOE at Colgan.

 

[Bruno82]

They will find a reason to pin it on the crew no matter what.

 

[Lynxman]

lynxman who is that in your avatar

Friend why? Shes not famous like SIUC's avatar girl of the day lol.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

It'll be interesting to see what will all come out of this. After three winters freight dogging in piston twins and turboprops you learn a lot, there's something to be said of experience in these matters.

At the same time though, pinning the blame on the crew as simply a lack of experience to me is an empty shell as well. There's been plenty of greater accidents caused by much more experienced crews, making more rudimentary mistakes.

Again, our culture fails us by trying to asses blame, instead of addressing systemic deficiencies.

 

[satpak77]

Friend why? Shes not famous like SIUC's avatar girl of the day lol.

cute friend