Colgan Air crew experience.

[skiandsurf]

Ironic...

...just a wierd coincident, but on this months Airline Pilot magazine, the cover picture is a Colgan D8-400 with 4 pilots (non of which were onboard).

 

[M-crit]

Don't know if this is severe or not- but I reported moderate to severe icing once climbing through 14,000. 1/4" on the wipers and most of the side window iced up...even with heat the side window kept accumulating ice until it was almost covered. Although I have seen 1/4" (or more) ice on my wipers before, I've never seen the side windows ice over like that.

 

[satpak77]

another thing is that the "flying since age 16" guy is getting fewer and fewer. Back "in the day" (mid 90's) the average regional/commuter FO came on board with 3000 TT, 500 to 1000 of which was flying Barons or Navajos at night single pilot 135 freight. You learn some lessons doing that. The same guy usually had some CFI time and maybe a little aerobatic time, formal training or not (!).

The pipeline of "zero to RJ cockpit" via $50,000 training program, in which banks past standard rate were never practiced and "use the automation" is the lesson of the day. I see to many advertisements with testimonials of "why waste my time flying XXXX, when I can go straight to the airlines (regionals)?"

I think that attitude is going to come back and haunt this industry.

 

[skiandsurf]

another thing is that the "flying since age 16" guy is getting fewer and fewer. Back "in the day" (mid 90's) the average regional/commuter FO came on board with 3000 TT, 500 to 1000 of which was flying Barons or Navajos at night single pilot 135 freight. You learn some lessons doing that. The same guy usually had some CFI time and maybe a little aerobatic time, formal training or not (!).

The pipeline of "zero to RJ cockpit" via $50,000 training program, in which banks past standard rate were never practiced and "use the automation" is the lesson of the day. I see to many advertisements with testimonials of "why waste my time flying XXXX, when I can go straight to the airlines (regionals)?"

I think that attitude is going to come back and haunt this industry.

This is why I started this thread, to find out what kind of background and times these pilots had. Seems like someone out here has to know some info, but nobody is speaking up.

But someone said the captain got his type in mid Oct. Would be guessing that he has <100 hrs in type.

 

[Lynxman]

To the last two posters you are so spot on thank you. Having a little internet fight with another memeber that seems to think 0-RJ right seat is ok.

 

[CX880]

To the last two posters you are so spot on thank you. Having a little internet fight with another memeber that seems to think 0-RJ right seat is ok.

It's not OK. Doesn't mean they're all bad pilots like you're implying with your know-it-all extensive cessna 172 experience.

 

[CX880]

This is why I started this thread, to find out what kind of background and times these pilots had. Seems like someone out here has to know some info, but nobody is speaking up.

But someone said the captain got his type in mid Oct. Would be guessing that he has <100 hrs in type.

Skiandsurf you are amazing. They should make you chief NTSB Aviation inspector. You have already diagnosed the cause of the accident as pilot error from your own computer or couch. It hasn't even been a week yet. WOW. And by the way you question above was answered in the second post of this thread, wise one.... And OCT till now is certainly worth a lot more than 100 hours in type.

 

[belchfire]

One of the most qualified people I ever had as my FO was very low on stick time. He had years of experience as a FE and worked very hard to transfer what he knew about 121 operations and what he knew about systems into actually flying the airplane as a pilot...he is an outstanding airman and has become an outstanding pilot.

In fact I would be comfortable moving any kind of airplane anywhere in the world with him-regardless if we were rated in type or not...we might need a few days in the books to move an old Douglas or a POS Airbus, but we could do it.

Your point is???

 

[MIKE767]

The auto pilot automatically turns off when the stick shaker goes off.

 

[bluefin]

This is why I started this thread, to find out what kind of background and times these pilots had. Seems like someone out here has to know some info, but nobody is speaking up.

But someone said the captain got his type in mid Oct. Would be guessing that he has <100 hrs in type.

There is "flying by the book", then there is "flying by experience". When the book goes out the window and all there is left is experience, or lack there of then trouble sets in.(not pointing directly at anyone) Where are numbers for an aircraft derived? From test pilots in a controlled environment. With 10000+ hrs and 6 type ratings I have been through a lot. I know "experience" has saved my bacon once or twice, ie wx radar failing right after T.O. in storms. I have been at companies when we lost an aircraft and crew. The thing that is going to come out of this is new info that will make the rest of us better pilots. It is a time to learn and not repeat. God speed to all, blue skies, flying the "Heavy" in the sky...

 

[CopilotDoug]

another thing is that the "flying since age 16" guy is getting fewer and fewer. Back "in the day" (mid 90's) the average regional/commuter FO came on board with 3000 TT, 500 to 1000 of which was flying Barons or Navajos at night single pilot 135 freight. You learn some lessons doing that. The same guy usually had some CFI time and maybe a little aerobatic time, formal training or not (!).

The pipeline of "zero to RJ cockpit" via $50,000 training program, in which banks past standard rate were never practiced and "use the automation" is the lesson of the day. I see to many advertisements with testimonials of "why waste my time flying XXXX, when I can go straight to the airlines (regionals)?"

I think that attitude is going to come back and haunt this industry.

I see your point, and agree for the most part. However, I think there are valid reasons to pass up on that single-pilot night cargo job, namely the condition of the equipment at some operators. Some are fine...some...not so fine.

 

[WSurf]

One of the most qualified people I ever had as my FO was very low on stick time. He had years of experience as a FE and worked very hard to transfer what he knew about 121 operations and what he knew about systems into actually flying the airplane as a pilot...he is an outstanding airman and has become an outstanding pilot.

In fact I would be comfortable moving any kind of airplane anywhere in the world with him-regardless if we were rated in type or not...we might need a few days in the books to move an old Douglas or a POS Airbus, but we could do it.

Your point is???

Would a more experience crew maybe questioned each other more? I think yes. I see that more experience crews tend to speak up when they might think or notice something isn't right. I have flown with some new FO's that are so low time they would probably let the Captain fly them into the ground without saying a word.
Anyone remember the Mesa flight into ROA when the FO basically let the Captain crash her into the runway without saying a word. I am sure a more experienced FO wouldnt have allowed her to even get close to the stickshaker without speaking up.

Remember it was only 2 years ago that many regionals were hiring people with less then 300hrs.

Its not the pilots fault, its the market. All of us would have taken a job if we could've at 300hrs. But when I was coming up if you didn't have 1500hrs they wouldn't even look at you.

 

[CALRepublic]

I also read that the autopilot was on the whole time. You would think it would have disengaged itself. Hmmm, don't know how the autopilot would have stayed on all the way till impact?

Watching the news this morning (local channel) they're saying "according to the NTSB the AP was on, the pilot did not follow company SOPs"...I think the media and NTSB are going to blame this poor guy....that's all his family needs right now

 

[WSurf]

Watching the news this morning (local channel) they're saying "according to the NTSB the AP was on, the pilot did not follow company SOPs"...I think the media and NTSB are going to blame this poor guy....that's all his family needs right now

How was he not following Company SOP's? There wasn't any report of Severe Icing in the area.

 

[wmuflyguy]

Watching the news this morning (local channel) they're saying "according to the NTSB the AP was on, the pilot did not follow company SOPs"...I think the media and NTSB are going to blame this poor guy....that's all his family needs right now

I saw the news this mornng and the NTSB briefer said that Colgan the pilots had the AP as was the standard practice. The only policy they had about the AP was not to use it in Severe Icing, which had not been reported (save me the argument about it not having to be reported, we don't know exactly what kind they were experiencing and saying they were in severe in just speculation).

The NTSB expanded that it recommended to the FAA no AP use in icing conditions but the FAA decided not to implement it. The crew has not yet been shown to be violating procedure.