CMR President's Message - Paycuts anyone?

[drag]

Why can't DAL bring future RJ's onto mainline? Who's to say that they need to be delivered to CMR or ASA? The majority of these airplanes were bought by DAL. They could brought to DAL, or be used to start a new airline.

 

[CF34-3B1]

Why can't DAL bring future RJ's onto mainline? Who's to say that they need to be delivered to CMR or ASA? The majority of these airplanes were bought by DAL. They could brought to DAL, or be used to start a new airline.

They can do anything they want, but future "RJ's" probably won't be it. Too many issues with doing that: The PID, the high CASM all the mainline boys love to remind us of, GG's anti RJ stance, the 'Starbucking' of DAL he's proposing, etc etc etc.

I'd say if anything, he's looking at EMB190 class airplanes to be flown by what used to be (but won't ever be again) mainline, not more RJ's for DCI.

Even if the prostitute carriers agreed to fly them for a box of Rice Crispies and a green card I still don't think GG is gonna buy more RJs. (But hey, it's ok, I'll upgrade faster and get my 1000PIC and then SWA will hire me and yaddayaddayadda........)

CRJ class airplanes don't fit GGs "Pull a Starbuck's" model, and the mainline guys would rather fly EMB190s for USAir/Eagle wages than see them go to DCI.

 

[General Lee]

Vortilon,

My wish is to have the furloughs fly again for a living at a good wage and fly something nice. I also want them to come back as soon as possible. I am not trying to enrage anyone, or to incite a riot.



Palerider,

The others may be correct, the CR7 deal may not be a huge one, but rather the EMB-190s or whatever could be. I don't really know about any of the current negotiations, and a lot of this is pure speculation. You and Bob Arnold don't have to get too upset yet. We have NO IDEA what will happen---but I think Dalpa will not sell our furloughs down the river. FINS is the one who was talking about possible J4J negotiations. The only reason I brought up CR7s is because Delta wanted unlimited 70 seaters in the last proposal, and that is what DCI currently has.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[surplus1]

General,

Don't take offense...I'm on your side on a great many things but I get a little tired of us furloughed guys being used as a wedge.

It is nice to see that at least one of you realizes that "you furloughed guys" have been used as a wedge by your MEC since day one. If that were not the case you would have been welcomed with open arms.

 

[surplus1]

Why can't DAL bring future RJ's onto mainline? Who's to say that they need to be delivered to CMR or ASA? The majority of these airplanes were bought by DAL. They could brought to DAL, or be used to start a new airline.

If the compay should decide to place future RJ's at the "mainline" I don't think many of us would have any problem with you flying them.

Now I have to ask you -- if the company decides to place future RJ's (like the EMB series or more CR7s and 9's) at CMR and ASA, will you feel the same way about our flying them?

 

[wms]

A j4j agreement would likely require a vote by ASA/CA. So in other words, there won't be a j4j if it comes before us. Why lower the bar further? If ML guys are gonna fly RJs, then put some future RJs at ML with a respectable pay scale. Don't start some alter-ego.

 

[surplus1]

Vortilon,

My wish is to have the furloughs fly again for a living at a good wage and fly something nice. I also want them to come back as soon as possible. I am not trying to enrage anyone, or to incite a riot.

General,

I think most people would like to see the furloughees fly again and always have. Your ideas of how that should happen are the fly in the ointment.

We have NO IDEA what will happen---but I think Dalpa will not sell our furloughs down the river.

Some would argue that Dalpa has aready created more than its share of obstacles for your furloughees.

I admire you for thinking that Dalpa will not "sell your furloughs down the river". What we find annoying is the idea that you seem to think that we would sell OUR First Officers down the river in order to give your pilots access to their future vacancies and upgrades. It ain't going to happen.

FINS is the one who was talking about possible J4J negotiations. The only reason I brought up CR7s is because Delta wanted unlimited 70 seaters in the last proposal, and that is what DCI currently has. Bye Bye--General Lee

Delta management will decide if it wants more CR7s or something else and where it would like to put them. Ultimately, Delta management will get what it wants from Dalpa in that respect.

There is however one thing that Dalpa will not get and that is the right to put any of your pilots into the left seat of any airplane on our operating certificate, whether old or "new", ahead of our own First Officers. You will get no super seniority from us.

When it comes to that, none of us give a rat's you know what about what "dalpa" thinks or doesn't think. The ONLY way anything like that could possibly occur is through a direct ratification vote by individual pilots in favor of it, the chances of which are slim to none. Any MEC that attempts to impose that without the consent of the pilots, by ballot, will be tarred and feathered post haste, and properly so.

Whether its your idea, dalpa's idea or alpa's idea, the best thing you can do is forget it and go immediately to "Plan B" 'cause that dog ain't gonna hunt in this field.

Better we work on making the best of a bad situation, for everyone. Of course you do have the option of selling your souls to convince the Company that it should create a new airline for your benefit. I wish you luck with that idea, but my guess is you'd have to give them a lot more than the billion they want now. Better quit while you're ahead.

 

[601Pilot]

CR7 Capt positions at ASA/Comair

General,

If a J4J proposal is made, how are you going to staff them? Probably half of
your furloughees don't have an ATP or the required time to be captains under
121. What are you going to do with them?

 

[acarpe3448]

DLTFurloughed

Half of our pilots don't have the time to upgrade? What have you been smoking? In my new hire class in 2000 every pilot had an ATP! Each pilot also had pleanty of experience to handle a left seat RJ job. I think you DCI pilots need to cool down big time. It is no surprise to me that when Delta is handing out mainline flying to you guys at Comair it is all in the name of good business and screw the Delta furloughed pilots. When someone even mentions the idea of RJ flying with Delta pilots in the left seat, it's a fight to the death to protect DCI F/O's rights to upgrade.

I have been out of the game for some time now. I quit looking on this message board like nearly a year ago because the DCI pilots (Comair) sounded like such huge cry babies. I come back today to see the response of the Wednesday announcement and it is the exact same stupid DCI hates Delta arguments still! Tell me something, in addition to being opposed to a J4J to help furloughed pilots comeback, are you guys still trying to steal a spot on the Delta senority list through the RJDC? Unreal!! Can't you guy's get it through your big heads (yes I mean DCI) as well as mainline, that you all are pilots. **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** good pilots! I swear my 7 year old has more logical fights with his friends about sharing than I hear on this board.

Hey General! Whats up? Thanks for all the support man! #18 on the SNL and ready to come back!! See ya soon!!!!

 

[JohnDoe]

quote from 601pilot:

"If a J4J proposal is made, how are you going to staff them? Probably half of
your furloughees don't have an ATP or the required time to be captains under
121. What are you going to do with them?"




What kind of idiotic assumption is that????

 

[On Your Six]

I presume that any J4J agreement would be for NEW aircraft as opposed to existing aircraft - is that correct? If that were the case, then none of the DCI FOs would be adversely impacted - the positions would be for supplemental aircraft beyond the existing fleet. That would be the most fair way to do things in my opinion.

At Continental, the flowbacks completely displaced COEX FOs - that would not be a favorable outcome and I hope that it wouldn't happen at ASA/Comair. As far as I know all J4J discussions are premature at the moment - everyone is in LIMBO....

 

[General Lee]

601pilot,
You are probably talking about the ASA and Comair guys who might not have enough time to upgrade. Most, if not all of our pilots and furloughed pilots have the time. ASA supposedly hired a few Peanut Brittle interns with 250 hours and 50 ME, so they might not be ready.

Acarpe,

Good to hear from you and we can't wait for your return. Grinstein said in the Reuters article that he does not expect further pilot furloughs, so hopefully you will come back and stay back--even though the pay will undoubtably be less. You might be able to get a 738 FO slot right off the bat in ATL. The future retirements in the near term will be interesting to say the least. Everyone who did not go in SEP must be smacking their head against a wall.....


Surplus1,

I can see that you feel threatened. I believe the recall will yeild about 30-40 pilots a month, and hopefully most of them will go into mainline aircraft. If we do park airplanes and they are directly replaced by 70 seaters, then those pilots deserve first shot at the replacement aircraft. That may not happen at all, and maybe the 737-200s and 733s will be replaced with future 100 seaters like the Emb 190---and then there wouldn't be a loss of hulls and maybe not pilot job losses. But, if the 70 seaters replace the 737s etc---then we will have a problem. Dalpa knows this, and that is where there could be an alternate plan made to include some 70 seaters into the fold. That would be plan B. I am sure Dalpa has back up plans and will try to negotiate for all circumstances. But, this all could be moot if we can get TBKANE back on the property and have him flying a mainline jet. With the current flood of retirements, he could be back sooner than later.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[AviatorTx]

But, if the 70 seaters replace the 737s etc---then we will have a problem. Dalpa knows this, and that is where there could be an alternate plan made to include some 70 seaters into the fold.

If mainline pilots are going to fly 70 seat jets, the planes neet to be on mainline property. Period. I'm sure will agree on this part, but;

If DALALPA allows more 70 seaters to go to ASA, Comair, ect... The "regional" pilots on thoses seniority lists should get first crack at them.

Mainline guys... It's your own darn fault that all the growth is at the regionals. you allowed it through your own generous scope clauses, and the fact that most mainline MEC's have pulled the opportunity ladder up behind them by giving away the said scope. CALALPA is a classic example. Since those darn scabs threw us off the MEC and stopped fighting for a flowthrough, I am longing for the day we start flying 737's at Express. Not going to happen soon, but it's going to happen.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

On Your Six has some good points on this one. I flew with an ex-COEX f/o last weekend and he had some not too good things to say about the CAL blowback deal. New Aircraft that goes to mainline, for mainline should be flown by mainline. DL is the one who assigns the airplanes. If they want more 700's to DCI then DCI should fly them. DL is fully aware of all the guys and gals sitting at home right on down to TBKANE. I would hope they would be taken care of first and foremost. Alot of people seem to be getting pretty worked up here and it is only the first day after the revelation!! Sheesh. I am hoping the long range plan is outlined at the first opportunity for all to see and then make some smart decisions for everyone.

 

[General Lee]

I think most of the new growth will be in mainline, with 100 seaters eventually. Those aircraft will most likely go to mainline---and Grinstein pointed out when asked if DCI would eventually fly 100 seaters---he stated, "I can't see them flying it." He may not be around forever, but Dalpa will try to keep their pilots employed. Some people on this board may think it is "Greedy" for Dalpa to go after some 70 seaters----while those same people think Comair should bid for DL's Md88s or future 100 seaters. I think we should look at who is on the street first. When everyone is back, then there should be some frank discussions.


Bye Bye--General Lee