CMR President's Message - Paycuts anyone?

[General Lee]

BVT1151,

If history tells us anything, and often it DOES, we have seen Dalpa go for the lower rate to keep the flying. This happened in 1996, with Delta Express. Back then Delta management said they were going to get rid of the 737-200s UNLESS Dalpa agreed to a lot lower rates and form Delta Express. Dalpa capitulated, and the senior guys were left with better rates, and the junior guys were left with lower rates. Guys came back from furlough directly to Capt on the 732.

If there are discussions about this going on, and I don't know how you would know, there is NO DOUBT in my mind that Dalpa would protect their own pilots. To think that Comair would get any new EMB-190s or even the MD88s---is ridiculous---and you guys on this thread won't even give up a dime for your growth cause. We still have 888 guys on furlough, and Malone and our lead negotiator told us at an ATL LEC meeting that the recall schedule would continue, even in a Chap 11 senario. You obviously think they are lying. We shall see. I forsee Dalpa going lower on the rates for the smaller aircraft, and keeping as much as they possibly can on the 738s and up. But, you can be my FO on the MD88 anytime you want.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[bvt1151]

I really wasn't saying you were wrong and I agree with most of your post. All I'm saying is that I'm prepared to not be suprised this Wednesday.

 

[General Lee]

What do you think will be said Wednesday? I think a gradual pare down of DFW (probably after the XMAS holiday) with the elimination of DL crew bases there. SLC doesn't appear to be affected much (atleast that is what was said in that article). As far as pilot numbers, since we haven't finished negotiating and the No Furlough Clause is still in effect, there shouldn't be much said about that until after negotiations are final---and I highly doubt Dalpa would allow that to disappear without J4J etc..... Phase 1 here may be one of many phases, and I doubt all will be revealed at once.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[JetPilot_Mike]

If there is any J4J opportunity for our furloughs, it better be direct entry Captain on any new CR7s. Closer to USAir's deal, rather than UAL's. Dalpa knows this, too.

Riiiiiiiigghhtt

 

[wil]

General Lee-

I think furloughs should be able to keep DAL DOH for pay and benefit's but If Mainline insists on keeping us seperate then they should go to the bottom of our list for bidding.
I want Mainline to recover and succeed. I also want the furloughs to start flying again. However, I can't capitulate completely, I have a Wife and Golden Retriever to support.
Wednesday should be interesting though! I have a feeling we will all be surprised. And, in a good way.
I love being part of the Delta family! I just hope one day to move out of the servants quarters! Fly safe. Cheers- Wil

 

[Heavy Set]

General Lee-

I think furloughs should be able to keep DAL DOH for pay and benefit's but If Mainline insists on keeping us seperate then they should go to the bottom of our list for bidding.
I want Mainline to recover and succeed. I also want the furloughs to start flying again. However, I can't capitulate completely, I have a Wife and Golden Retriever to support.
Wednesday should be interesting though! I have a feeling we will all be surprised. And, in a good way.
I love being part of the Delta family! I just hope one day to move out of the servants quarters! Fly safe. Cheers- Wil

I don't see why J4J with Captain slots for any NEW aircraft would be a problem - emphasize "New" aircraft. Nobody would lose any current slots and then the Comair/ASA pilots would get all of the added Captain and FO slots as the furloughees are called up to the mainline. For any furloughees who do not have the seniority for Captain positions on NEW aircraft, then they should go to the bottom of the seniority list as FOs. That seems pretty reasonable to me and it is a win-win situation for everyone as Comair/ASA would be adding more new aircraft vs. no real growth at all. Isn't this being applied at both UAL and USAirways?

 

[wil]

Heavy- I see your point. Didn't understand about "new" aircraft. I am a simple man. I consider myself an Airline Pilot. All talk of airframe and Mainline versus Regional just plays into management's hands. Will anyone else see this? Cheers, Wil

 

[General Lee]

Wil,


I wouldn't want anyone to replace you, and Heavy Set was right---I tried to emphasize the NEW part. If mainline aircraft are going to be parked and REPLACED with newer, smaller aircraft, those pilots who would be replaced should have first bids.(like MDA) I cannot see Dalpa accepting anything else. If certain airlines want a larger piece of the pie, then they can also give Captain slots on their aircraft to any furloughed Delta pilot (like Mesa and USAir, also PSA). There are NO pilots out there( our guys who are furloughed) that want to go to Comair and be an FO----ASA maybe---but NO WAY to Comair. Our Dalpa board has enough proof of that already. Our MEC knows that also. But, I will say it again---you guys should not be bumped out of your seats.



JetpilotMike,

Just watch.


Heavyset,

The UAL way (allowing their furloughs to go to the RIGHT SEAT at second year pay) is NOT good enough. The USAir way (MDA style or direct entry Capt at other participating regional airlines) would be the preferred way I believe to most of our furloughs, if it got to that. No one should be BUMPED at any airline--only new aircraft deliveries.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[wil]

Thanks General. Heavy explained it to me. See my previous post. I hope we all come out OK!! Cheers, Wil

 

[Dude]

If the folks over on Virginia Ave. want Jets for Jobs, that's fine with me. As long as those jobs are first year pay, new-hire jobs. Your brethren at DAL chose to leave the regional ranks and go to DAL. They forfeit their ability to bypass my bid for Captain when they signed up on the bottom of DAL's sen. list. Direct entry 70 Capt., my a$$. I'm not pullin' gear for some dooshbag that bet the farm and lost. You chose to leave our $hitty ranks and go across the street. Your problem. If we have this bogus deal imposed on us, I'm out. Talk about gettin' your knickers in a twist if it don't go your way. I guess it's not good enough we hired furloghed guys, now I gotta wipe their a$$ too?

I'll admit that I didn't want to spend a career here at ASA, when I started, but that's the way things go. Since I will be here longer, than most of your furloughed buddies ever were, I'm not gonna invite them to take what crappy earning potential I do have away. We're under no obligation to protect your job, only ours.

 

[bvt1151]

What do you think will be said Wednesday?

Bye Bye--General Lee

To tell you the truth, I don't know. I have this feeling Wednesday will bring bad news for Comair. Perhaps its the Fred will be in CVG immediately after the webcast, or perhaps its just intuition, but something doesn't seem right.

 

[General Lee]

Dude,

Who says the new planes could go to ASA or Comair? They could go to another DCI entity---one just made up like MDA. Do I know how to do something like that? Heck no. Dalpa would have to come up with the answers.



BVT1151,

Everyone feels targeted right now. Apparently the DFW stews were called personally and told that DFW would be closed---so that is a good first guess. I don't know if that means DCI would leave DFW, or if they would take over mainline stuff. They may announce EVENTUAL fleet withdrawls, but from what I have heard a lot of that would be when their individual leases expire--and the 732's start to go in 2005 thru 2008. The MD88 myth about it leaving the fleet was also debunked---and they are the first fleet to get the new interiors. Anything announced (personel wise) will not take place until after Xmas I bet. Hopefull they have a plan---and increased INTL flying is evident---additional flights to Mumbai, Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires, and Honolulu from ATL have been announced as of late---and new domestic routes to Burbank and Reno. It will be interesting....



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DAL737FO]

If the folks over on Virginia Ave. want Jets for Jobs, that's fine with me. As long as those jobs are first year pay, new-hire jobs.

Why would that have to be? These would be aircraft that you would not have unless this deal was made. There is a 57-70seat cap on regional feed right now. The deal is that any new Captain seat above the 57th aircraft goes to a furloughee and once the furloughee's get recalled to mainline then the aircraft with all seat positions stays. Sounds like growth to me.

Your brethren at DAL chose to leave the regional ranks and go to DAL.

Just as you say later in your paragraph that you wanted to do also.

They forfeit their ability to bypass my bid for Captain when they signed up on the bottom of DAL's sen. list. Direct entry 70 Capt., my a$$.

This will not be your decision. You will have your standard issue one vote on the item if/when it goes to MEMRAT. You see the only way your contract can be modified is if your MEC approves it unilaterally or it goes to MEMRAT and 50% + 1 pilot votes yes on it. Either way the decision is not being made at the mainline level.


I'm not pullin' gear for some dooshbag that bet the farm and lost. You chose to leave our $hitty ranks and go across the street. Your problem. If we have this bogus deal imposed on us, I'm out. Talk about gettin' your knickers in a twist if it don't go your way. I guess it's not good enough we hired furloghed guys, now I gotta wipe their a$$ too?

Boy you are you miserable person. Why exactly is someone a douchebag if they wanted to move to greener pastures and yes during the late 90's and early 00's the majors were and for the most part are greener pastures.

I'll admit that I didn't want to spend a career here at ASA, when I started, but that's the way things go. Since I will be here longer, than most of your furloughed buddies ever were, I'm not gonna invite them to take what crappy earning potential I do have away. We're under no obligation to protect your job, only ours.

We are not asking you to protect anything. We have given up 49% of our flying to help the company. We have the most liberal scope clause of all the majors. All this J4J talk is only talk. There has been no LOA pushed forward to be looked at by any MEC. Matter of fact the only talk on the subject is on message boards like these.

B-727 Freight Dawg

 

[Palerider957]

Fins,


If there is any J4J opportunity for our furloughs, it better be direct entry Captain on any new CR7s. Closer to USAir's deal, rather than UAL's. Dalpa knows this, too.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General, this is at best antagonistic, and at worst --infuriating! If you think Bob Arnold will seriously consider bringing in DAL furloughees as CR7 Captains, think again. NO ONE at ASA will vote for this, NO ONE. If you really want to push us toward a strike, this would do it. The junior guys would only see their upgrade time soaring, and the senior guys have no love for DAL (after YEARS of snubbing).

NO one should be using US Air as an example of how to do things, that argument carries no weight here.

To be perfectly honest, if we were to strike, I'm seriously concerned that DALPA would want their people to fly our planes. That has been hinted at on these boards before.

 

[Vortilon]

General,

I would have to agree this J4J rumor you keep pushing is counterproductive. As a furloughed guy I appreciate your support but there is no basis for this rumor and it only serves to aggravate people. So far in this recall, there is a 60-80% bypass rate...maybe only 1/3 of the 1060 will come back anyway....we wouldn't "need" a J4J. Perhaps the numbers accepting recall will go up after GGs plan comes into view but I kind of doubt it will be significant.

You don't see furloughed pilots screaming for J4J on the DALPA board...it just isn't a topic. We've all been out for a long time now and have found other means. If a mechanism had been in place years ago, I'm sure many would have taken advantage of it but now there's so much animosity I really wouldn't want to deal with it every day in the crew rooms.

Don't take offense...I'm on your side on a great many things but I get a little tired of us furloughed guys being used as a wedge.

 

[drag]

Why can't DAL bring future RJ's onto mainline? Who's to say that they need to be delivered to CMR or ASA? The majority of these airplanes were bought by DAL. They could brought to DAL, or be used to start a new airline.

 

[CF34-3B1]

Why can't DAL bring future RJ's onto mainline? Who's to say that they need to be delivered to CMR or ASA? The majority of these airplanes were bought by DAL. They could brought to DAL, or be used to start a new airline.

They can do anything they want, but future "RJ's" probably won't be it. Too many issues with doing that: The PID, the high CASM all the mainline boys love to remind us of, GG's anti RJ stance, the 'Starbucking' of DAL he's proposing, etc etc etc.

I'd say if anything, he's looking at EMB190 class airplanes to be flown by what used to be (but won't ever be again) mainline, not more RJ's for DCI.

Even if the prostitute carriers agreed to fly them for a box of Rice Crispies and a green card I still don't think GG is gonna buy more RJs. (But hey, it's ok, I'll upgrade faster and get my 1000PIC and then SWA will hire me and yaddayaddayadda........)

CRJ class airplanes don't fit GGs "Pull a Starbuck's" model, and the mainline guys would rather fly EMB190s for USAir/Eagle wages than see them go to DCI.

 

[General Lee]

Vortilon,

My wish is to have the furloughs fly again for a living at a good wage and fly something nice. I also want them to come back as soon as possible. I am not trying to enrage anyone, or to incite a riot.



Palerider,

The others may be correct, the CR7 deal may not be a huge one, but rather the EMB-190s or whatever could be. I don't really know about any of the current negotiations, and a lot of this is pure speculation. You and Bob Arnold don't have to get too upset yet. We have NO IDEA what will happen---but I think Dalpa will not sell our furloughs down the river. FINS is the one who was talking about possible J4J negotiations. The only reason I brought up CR7s is because Delta wanted unlimited 70 seaters in the last proposal, and that is what DCI currently has.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[surplus1]

General,

Don't take offense...I'm on your side on a great many things but I get a little tired of us furloughed guys being used as a wedge.

It is nice to see that at least one of you realizes that "you furloughed guys" have been used as a wedge by your MEC since day one. If that were not the case you would have been welcomed with open arms.

 

[surplus1]

Why can't DAL bring future RJ's onto mainline? Who's to say that they need to be delivered to CMR or ASA? The majority of these airplanes were bought by DAL. They could brought to DAL, or be used to start a new airline.

If the compay should decide to place future RJ's at the "mainline" I don't think many of us would have any problem with you flying them.

Now I have to ask you -- if the company decides to place future RJ's (like the EMB series or more CR7s and 9's) at CMR and ASA, will you feel the same way about our flying them?