CMR President's Message - Paycuts anyone?

[FDJ2]

Comair has the lowest CASM in the DCI family.

Those numbers can change with the stroke of a pen.

 

[atrdriver]

This, combined with the implied support of a very anti-union administration (see how the TSA bill was hung up for weeks regarding their ability to unionize),

The worry about the TSA unionizing wasn't about them being union, it was about them being able to fire someone who wasn't doing their jobs, or was incompetent. The fear was that if someone was screwing up in an "important" job like security screening that a union would protect them and not allow them to be fired, just like the other federal unions. That fear would have been felt no matter who was in the White House. As it turns out, they aren't trying to get rid of incompetent people, so it really didn't matter in the end.

atrdriver

 

[Rogue5]

The worry about the TSA unionizing wasn't about them being union, it was about them being able to fire someone who wasn't doing their jobs, or was incompetent.

There are many in the business world who feel this is exactly the same situation with the airlines. I guess it is a matter of perspective...

 

[bvt1151]

Those numbers can change with the stroke of a pen.

Incorrect. But we've already established your incapacity for this knowledge and I'm not interested in posting in circles with you again.

 

[Heavy Set]

Quid Pro Quo - Give and Take....

It's called Quid Pro Quo. If you want growth and faster upgrade opportunities, THEN you need to give something back (pay to fund the growth and maintain the margin). Give and take vs. take and take and take....

Of course, DAL mainline pilots will have to ensure scope is not violated and that the furlougees are taken care of (you can't forget the furloughees - many of whom have been out of work for years....).

 

[FDJ2]

Incorrect. But we've already established your incapacity for this knowledge and I'm not interested in posting in circles with you again.

The only incapacity is your incapacity to see world as it truly is. You'll learn.

 

[JECKEL]

FDJ2,

You are an idiot! You are one of those who think Comair is only profitable because Delta ALLOWS it to be profitable on the backs of mainline.

Comair made enormous monies before the buyout and they continue to bring it in today. No stroke of a pen did that my friend.

It's your world that is in question.

 

[contract2002]

It's called Quid Pro Quo. If you want growth and faster upgrade opportunities, THEN you need to give something back (pay to fund the growth and maintain the margin). Give and take vs. take and take and take....

This is complete B.S.

In December of 1998, many XJT pilots recieved nearly a 100% pay rate increase AND subsequent new hires were Captains within 1 - 2 years.

You get an "F" for Econ 101 this semester.

 

[FDJ2]

FDJ2,

You are an idiot! You are one of those who think Comair is only profitable because Delta ALLOWS it to be profitable on the backs of mainline.

Comair made enormous monies before the buyout and they continue to bring it in today. No stroke of a pen did that my friend.

Jeckel, CMR made money based on a lucrative contract with DAL flying DL code passengers, once the contract was up for renewal there was no way DAL was going to give CMR that lucrative contract again. You weren't making money on the passengers you flew, you were making money on the cash DAL paid you to fly those passengers. CMR faced three options, 1. go it alone, 2. become an independent small jet provider, or 3. become a wholly owned small jet provider. Your management team wisely chose option number three. Going it alone was viewed by your management team as way too risky and option two meant the end of double digit margins, since CMR would have to compete against a growing number of small jet providers. CMR has benefitted greatly since your acquisition, experiencing 85% growth in 5 years.

Today, CMR costs are what DAL says they are and they are mostly, as the DAL CFO stated, just direct operating costs. Likewise, CMR revenue is whatever DAL wants it to be. No one buys a CMR ticket. CMR's revenue per flight is not determined by the price of the passengers ticket, or the revenue that flight produces for DAL, CMR's revenue is whatever DAL compensates CMR to perform that flight, regardless of whether or not DAL makes money on that flight.

You see Jeckel, once you understand the nature of the relationship between a wholly owned small jet provider and its parent company, you begin to understand that both your revenue and your costs are determined by the parent.

 

[Heavy Set]

This is complete B.S.

In December of 1998, many XJT pilots recieved nearly a 100% pay rate increase AND subsequent new hires were Captains within 1 - 2 years.

You get an "F" for Econ 101 this semester.

Hey Contract,

Let's see who's correct after Comair pilots take a paycut. Comair pilots see the writing on the wall - either you reduce your wages OR more flying will be contracted out to your buddies at lower-cost CHQ (or potentially Mesa or others). You are in denial if you don't see that. The cost-cutting tidal wave is approaching the industry as a whole and Comair/ASA are not immune. I don't know why Comair pilots think they are immune to cost-cutting changes in the industry (do you think you are not a target on the radar? You're wrong so long as Mesa pays its CRJ pilots so much less).... Pure arrogance.

Maybe you like the 8-10 year upgrades? If Comair wants to see any growth, its cost will need to be reduced to more competitive levels - or that growth will go elsewhere... Sad but true...

 

[Bayoupilot]

And by the way, this ALL can be traced back to the spineless pilots of mesa, chawawa, and skywest. Thanx guys and gals. What a bunch of losers.

That's all I got to say about thAT.

They can kiss my arse.

Hey, which was the first airline to use regional jets? Comair!

Or, to put it another way:

Hey, which pilot group was the first to agree to fly jet routes at a greatly reduced wage, routes that once were flown by Delta but became economically unfeasible because another pilot group that was paid much less but were willing to fly thouse routes anyway? That's right, Comair!

So, Afellowaviator, we were just following your lead. Live with THAT, brother!

And hey, you can kiss MY arse anytime.

 

[bvt1151]

Hey Contract,

Let's see who's correct after Comair pilots take a paycut. Comair pilots see the writing on the wall - either you reduce your wages OR more flying will be contracted out to your buddies at lower-cost CHQ (or potentially Mesa or others). You are in denial if you don't see that. The cost-cutting tidal wave is approaching the industry as a whole and Comair/ASA are not immune. I don't know why Comair pilots think they are immune to cost-cutting changes in the industry (do you think you are not a target on the radar? You're wrong so long as Mesa pays its CRJ pilots so much less).... Pure arrogance.

Maybe you like the 8-10 year upgrades? If Comair wants to see any growth, its cost will need to be reduced to more competitive levels - or that growth will go elsewhere... Sad but true...

Certainly there is no writing on the wall, and even if there was, I guarantee you there is absolutely no Comair pilot who sees it. There is no Comair pilot in Cincinnati who is calling for concessions for growth.

Being the self-proclaimed economic genius you are, surely you'd understand that Comair concessions would increase the gap between mainline DCI wages, which just means that much more out of the Delta pilots pocket. Or do you?

There is a major difference between Comair's acquisition of RJ's in 1993 and CHQ's now. Comair acquired RJ's because the Delta pilots decided not to fly anything that small. It was the Delta pilots choice that Comair received RJ's. CHQ and Skywest are not flying aircraft that Delta, Comair, or ASA do not want to fly. They are flying the same sizedaircraft. This alone would be a significant difference Bayoupilot refuses to point out, but when you add in the fact that neither CHQ nor Skywest are ALPA carriers, you have to wonder why mainline ALPA members such as Heavy and FDJ defend their status. Not only are you outsourcing jobs from the Delta family, but you're giving them to pilots who are not even a part of your union.

Explain to me your reasoning again?

 

[drag]

The undercutters are being undercut. So goes the game. I predict that many RJP's will be following ACA/FLYI path. This will be followed by some bankruptcies and liquidations. The survivors will a few RJP's that work for gutter wages/benies. The bottom line is w/ high fuel prices, high load factors, and super low fares, their isn't any room for 50 seat jets. CASM is way too high. 70-110 seat effecient jets are the future. These will be flown at mainline w/ marginal benefits... a "C" scale. 50 seaters will sit in the desert w/ old dc10's and 727s. Take a look at Bombardiers stock, credit, and future growth potential. The 50 seater is on the way out.

 

[Heavy Set]

Certainly there is no writing on the wall, and even if there was, I guarantee you there is absolutely no Comair pilot who sees it. There is no Comair pilot in Cincinnati who is calling for concessions for growth.

Being the self-proclaimed economic genius you are, surely you'd understand that Comair concessions would increase the gap between mainline DCI wages, which just means that much more out of the Delta pilots pocket. Or do you?

There is a major difference between Comair's acquisition of RJ's in 1993 and CHQ's now. Comair acquired RJ's because the Delta pilots decided not to fly anything that small. It was the Delta pilots choice that Comair received RJ's. CHQ and Skywest are not flying aircraft that Delta, Comair, or ASA do not want to fly. They are flying the same sizedaircraft. This alone would be a significant difference Bayoupilot refuses to point out, but when you add in the fact that neither CHQ nor Skywest are ALPA carriers, you have to wonder why mainline ALPA members such as Heavy and FDJ defend their status. Not only are you outsourcing jobs from the Delta family, but you're giving them to pilots who are not even a part of your union.

Explain to me your reasoning again?

First of all, as I have stated numerous times - I am not a Delta pilot and I have no relation whatsoever to Delta Airlines. I know a number of Delta pilots - that's all.

Second, if you think that your high regional wages (relative to all other regional wage levels - go to airlinepilotpay.com and take a look at how much higher your wages are vs. Eagle and CHQ) will go unscathed in this cost-cutting environment then you are full of it. Do you think Delta/Comair management will allow you to continue with the highest regional wages when they are in cost cutting mode? They are not dumb enough to leave money on the table - and that's a FACT Jack. No economics degree needed. Sure, decreasing your wages won't contribute hundreds of millions per year, but it will be a decent amount (and cumulative) and you can bet that management will get the wage cuts NOW when it has the opportunity - they won't wait for another window of opportunity. Did you read Randy's letter? Do you get the implicit message? Do you want any growth or do you want to give it away to CHQ or Skywest? DAL pilots have no say in the outsourcing of jobs outside of ALPA.

Go read Randy's letter again and take a peak into the future - cost cuts are on the way and don't blame it on the DAL mainline pilots who have nothing to do with it... You are a victim of your own contractual success - you are an expensive target in a low-cost industry... No economics degree needed to understand that.

 

[CRJ puppy]

As a member of the Comair family, I can assure you that as was previously stated, NO Comair pilot will accept a wage cut for growth. Anyone who thinks otherwise does NOT know or understand the Comair pilot group. We are all quite happy where we are or we wouldn't be here. We understand that upgrade times are getting longer. We accept that fact. You don't have to believe or accept that, it's just the fact.

 

[contract2002]

Hey Contract,

Let's see who's correct after Comair pilots take a paycut.

This will be the self-fulfilling prophecy of the new millenium. If I keep having to hear about Comair's paycuts I am going to puke.

I am not denying that there are undercutters out there, but I am sick of hearing people say that Comair will take concessions with out any FINANCIAL DATA to back it up.

Do you think that DAL will be able to go to the judge and say, "yes, that is correct and I know we're hiring 1000+ pilots back, but we can't afford to pay Comair pilots so we need the chap 11. protection..."

wow.

You are the blind one if you see Comair concessions in the future.

 

[91100 100 set]

I didn't bother to read the pissing back and forth on the last three pages, but I will say this. As a former ALG pilot, I caution the Comair pilots. ALG was an expensive Wo'd, just like Comair is now. I am behind you, but I caution you to look into the recent past and examine what happened to your peers at ALG and PDT.

 

[bvt1151]

The undercutters are being undercut.

Comair has never undercut anyone in similar aircraft. It was impossible since Comair was the first US carrier to operate a 50-seat regional jet. Comair has always set their wages higher than other carriers with similar aircraft. Delta has no similar aircraft...their own fault.

CHQ, however has come after CMR and ASA with nothing more than lower wages in similar aircraft. This is the epitome of an undercut. What is even more sickening is the Delta pilot who says CHQ deserves the flying because they're paid less...and a non-ALPA carrier!!! If that were true, Delta would not employ any of their own pilots.

Fortunately there are plenty of analysts who agree that Comair still has the lowest costs in the DCI family, even with the highest pay. I'll believe Aviation Week over FDJ any day.

 

[Caveman]

There is no way Comair pilots will be convinced to take a VOLUNTARY pay cut based on the current financial condition of this company. The key word is voluntary. We will not trade dollars for growth. A BK judge may force a pay cut on us, but we have no control over that. If and when the company ever proves that a pay cut is necessary to remain solvent then we'll talk. There is NO CHANCE that we'll accept concessions just to be 'competitive' so Randy can get a bigger bonus. Anybody that believes otherwise is seriously misjudging the character and resolve of the Comair pilots.

 

[General Lee]

I was not surprised by Randy's letter, it is a classic move. They want to decrease costs everywhere, and their bonuses depend on it. They have the potential growth carrot out in front of you, and you guys will either take it and grow(possibly), or make your same wages and not grow(unless we go Chap 11). One thing you need to look at is the possibility of J4J with the Delta furloughs---they could give new 70 seaters to Delta pilots, and then still take your cash and grow you slowly. If you are thinking that way, then I don't blame you for NOT wanting to take cuts.


Bye Bye--General Lee