Class date at United and jetBlue

[Jonny Sacko]

Congrats, either way, and Merry Christmas.

 

[Frank Lorenzo]

I did choose to go to UAL guys.

Good decision.

The only ones here that think JBLU will survive are the senior JBLU Bus Captains that are in denial. Everyone else sees the writing on the wall.

Best case scenario for the JBLU pilots is JBLU gets bought and stapled to the bottom of someone elses list.

BTW, if you get a chance, make your way into management. The pay is much, much better.

 

[g-code]

It's all about OIL. As the price creeps up to $100, and it will, and when the recession takes hold, Tilton and many of his counterparts in the industry are going to park airplanes. He's already mentioned it too. I'll take my chances here at JB because we have the flexibility here to keep everyone's job and an extra $300 million from LH to carry us through the rough road ahead-- Getting money in the airline industry is going to be harder and harder for growth so many have to count on their daily cash revenues to survive-- when that starts wilting away, then large companies with big payments who didn't do enough in 3 years of BK (UAUA) are going to be in trouble. Additionally, it was a slap in the face of all of UAUA's employees when the company decided to hand out $250 million to shareholders in January 2008 vs giving back what was taken away in benefits and pay-- oh wait, you guys got a contract, right?

Oil prices will hurt JetBlue more than UA. Further, an executive at UA was misquoted on the whole parking airplanes thing, and it wasn't Tilton who said it. Go ahead and take your chances at Blue.

You can also take your $300 million from LH and compare it to UA's 4.8 billion in the bank.

I also don't know why everyone here is bitching about the stock payout at UA either. I know that every UA pilot out there received a relatively large amount of stock from the company after BK, and that is money back in their pockets.

The work rules and pay suck compared to what they used to be, but thats life. It is unfortunately reflective of the industry as a whole, and as long as there are Skybus's, JetBlues, and Virgin America's out there, then it won't change.

 

[viper01]

4.8 billion? How much of that did they take off the back of creditors/employees?

 

[Heavy Set]

I did choose to go to UAL guys. I forgot about this thread actually, so I weighed all my options and took a lot of the good points everyone made hear to heart. I appreciate the input and am very happy with my call thus far. Started class in November with a 1 leg commute to ORD when I'm done with training. Was really hoping this age 65 thing would stall for a while longer, but that's a entirely different animal that's been beaten to death on here. Thanks again for the advice!

Good job and good luck!

 

[Splert]

It's all about OIL. As the price creeps up to $100, and it will, and when the recession takes hold, Tilton and many of his counterparts in the industry are going to park airplanes. He's already mentioned it too. I'll take my chances here at JB because we have the flexibility here to keep everyone's job and an extra $300 million from LH to carry us through the rough road ahead-- Getting money in the airline industry is going to be harder and harder for growth so many have to count on their daily cash revenues to survive-- when that starts wilting away, then large companies with big payments who didn't do enough in 3 years of BK (UAUA) are going to be in trouble. Additionally, it was a slap in the face of all of UAUA's employees when the company decided to hand out $250 million to shareholders in January 2008 vs giving back what was taken away in benefits and pay-- oh wait, you guys got a contract, right?

That is 100% backwards. UAUA has the flexibility to park aircraft JetBlue has to sell them. This means they have to have a buyer who is willing to pay more than the existing lease payment. This is the only way JetBlue can convince the leaseholder to break the lease. UAUA has over 80 aircraft which are unencumbered. UAUA could park them.

JetBlue has zero flexibility or projected free cash flow to cover the current debt payments in 2008 and 2009. The only reason jetBlue is taking 12 NET aircraft in 2008 is because they are trying like mad to find buyers for 12 or more aircraft in 2008 and then 2009. JetBlue would love it if they had the flexibility of UAL. Too park unencumbered aircraft. If they did they would do it - yesterday.

JetBlue is the company whose daily cash flow is projected in 2008 to not cover the cost of the operation and is a large company with huge CURRENT debt payments coming due in 2008 and 2007. About $750 million.

A little recession and JetBlue is in big trouble without another sale of company equity. This is least favorable way to generate capital when the stock projected to be in the sub $5 range.

 

[nimtz]

Well Blue aid your view represents stout analysis from an impartial individual, really thanks for that. Nah, rather trust Bloomberg...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=email_en&refer=home&sid=aBhfw.eaU7GY

It's all about OIL. As the price creeps up to $100, and it will, and when the recession takes hold, Tilton and many of his counterparts in the industry are going to park airplanes. He's already mentioned it too. I'll take my chances here at JB because we have the flexibility here to keep everyone's job and an extra $300 million from LH to carry us through the rough road ahead-- Getting money in the airline industry is going to be harder and harder for growth so many have to count on their daily cash revenues to survive-- when that starts wilting away, then large companies with big payments who didn't do enough in 3 years of BK (UAUA) are going to be in trouble. Additionally, it was a slap in the face of all of UAUA's employees when the company decided to hand out $250 million to shareholders in January 2008 vs giving back what was taken away in benefits and pay-- oh wait, you guys got a contract, right?

 

[CTflyer]

Oil prices will hurt JetBlue more than UA. Further, an executive at UA was misquoted on the whole parking airplanes thing, and it wasn't Tilton who said it. Go ahead and take your chances at Blue.

You can also take your $300 million from LH and compare it to UA's 4.8 billion in the bank.

I also don't know why everyone here is bitching about the stock payout at UA either. I know that every UA pilot out there received a relatively large amount of stock from the company after BK, and that is money back in their pockets.

The work rules and pay suck compared to what they used to be, but thats life. It is unfortunately reflective of the industry as a whole, and as long as there are Skybus's, JetBlues, and Virgin America's out there, then it won't change.

Not sure why everyone is bitching about the stock payout??.....Hmmmm let me see....23% pay cut in 1994 to help with the so called ESOP which gave pilots some large chunks of stock only to find out 10 years later that it is all worthless in BK and maybe got a few pennies on the dollar...ERP 1 or 2 or 3.....A-Fund goes bye bye...Tilton gets a bonus of 40 million...the list goes on

And you wonder why everyone is bitching???

Not getting back anywhere near what was lost.

 

[fatboyplt]

CTflyer,
You hit the nail on the head. All true and no apparent plan other than to do a merge, sell or whatever in vogue plan of the day is.

Birdman
BTV Currently on tour with 82nd Airborne Bagram Afghanistan

 

[Shrek]

CTflyer,
You hit the nail on the head. All true and no apparent plan other than to do a merge, sell or whatever in vogue plan of the day is.

Birdman
BTV Currently on tour with 82nd Airborne Bagram Afghanistan

I want to wish you and your family a belated Merry Christmas.

I could never thank you enough for your personal sacrifices that you and your family has endured during the past 6 years.

My hats off to you sir - keep your head down and get home home as soon as the job is done.

 

[FlyForFood_NOT]

Working for United Express before, I honestly have to say that I have no idea how UA still exists. I have never seen so many pax being treated like crap by cust svc - from big number of overbookings on seats (and pax being left at gates) to miserable ticket/gate agents ,and onto mainline FAs that make Mesa pay rates (compare if you don't believe me) and who are treated just as bad...

I had the pleaseure to meet many UA pilots jumpseating on us. Fine guys! but majority are miserable as heck (I would be also if mngmt took 300mil bonuses while I'm still making louzy concession pay). JetBlue is definitelly a much happier crowd. JB's pay is miserable to say the least (hence so manay poeple leaving to DL CAL now). How do you live in NY next 3 years on $49 190 FO pay when you can make almost twice that 2nd year at DL???

Like someone said, JB has already hired its future captains during the rush in last 3 years. You're way past the front of the wave now. The most one could expect in 10 years at JB would be a 2/3 senior 190CPT (maybe very bottom 320). UA def looks much better long term.

"JB going belly up?" I always laugh when people say that. Why would they? The public likes them, they have excellent service, good planes, good financing on their new fleet. They don't have lots of cash reserve, but they're constantly making money. I wouldn't be shocked if they started (or at least tried) going int'l 5 years from now (Europe and more Ctrl America).

I think both JB and UA offer same stability (JB being a new risky lowcost, UA's mngmt making no sense, not looking at future, and merging being an issue). So if you don't mind being FO for a while, flying US routes, working with a happier crowd - go to jetBlue. If you want int'l flying, better long term seniority (if the likely merger doesn't mess things up) go to UA.

Personally, I'd pick UA (more exciting flying). Right now UA hasn't hired more than 200 pilots, and if you get on now, even with a merger you'll have some safety below you..

Good luck and congrats on being able to pick. It's better than not having any options at all like many pilots out there

 

[Bob_Sacamano]

How many pilots were on the JB seniority list when 9/11 happened?

Never been a furlough at JetBlue even after 9/11. As soon as the next downturn hits at UAUA, you will get your furlough letter.
.

 

[Shrek]

How many pilots were on the JB seniority list when 9/11 happened?

Spectre is a toolbox............get a clue.