Class date at United and jetBlue

[JetFumes]

A little off topic, but how long can a new hire get SFO?

 

[ualdriver]

A little off topic, but how long can a new hire get SFO?

JFK DCA ORD DEN LAX SFO SEA
B400 CAP 1112 817 710 1330
F/O 5063 4522 5356 5619
B777 CAP 1550 1380 1135 1459 888
F/O 5751 5594 5687 5796 4079
B767 CAP 2987 3484 3400 2669 3413 3801 1588
F/O 6144 7913 7908 6631 7878 7966 4404
A320 CAP 4390 5540 5390 4581 4744 4671
F/O 7360 7958 7985 7986 7964 7833
B300 CAP 5438 5413 4964 2670
F/O 7815 7973 7892 5082

I have no idea how the above are going to line up, but it looks like west coast widebody F/O is just about as junior as any other narrowbody f/o seat right now. Current first officers on the property are about to released from their freezes, so many of them will bid widebody f/o for the pay, skewing west coast wide body numbers higher. I would WAG it and say even with this unfreezing, you'd be able to hold widebody f/o within a couple of years, barring the usual show stoppers. Maybe even sooner because west coast doesn't seem to be as desirable as other domiciles.

 

[crashpad]

UAL. More job security. Steady paycheck. Lots of aircraft and destination options. Easy commute.

 

[JetFumes]

Thanks for the info. I've heard you could get widebody FO fairly quick. Just waiting to see what happes.

 

[AdlerDriver]

UNITED
I would have a 1 leg commute to ORD or DEN with UAL. Opportunity to fly international someday down the road. They have a good chunk of cash in the bank. Then again, Tilton's been shopping around for a merger for how long now? No aircraft on order, not sure how the reserve works since I'll be on reserve forever. QOL? Not sure for a junior commuter.

JETBLUE
2 leg commute to JFK. Very good QOL with decent days off and shorter reserve time. Not bad pay starting out. Lots of debt and not sure what lies ahead for them if they can weather a storm so to speak if something comes along.
Many Many other points too numerous to get into here. But thanks again everyone. I'll keep doing my homework.

I’ll have to second the comment from the other freight dog. I’m having a hard time understanding how you can put QOL and a 2-leg commute, eastbound (to JFK no less) in the same sentence.

If you’re not planning on moving, commuting to JFK with 2 legs would pretty much rule out JB for me. I doubt JB is servicing many airports in ND so you’d also be talking about at least 1 leg off line (not always a big deal but it is nice to have the option of getting to work on your employer’s aircraft).

I just passed on my final UAL recall. Obviously, my situation was different but I’d still take their offer if I was in your situation. Try UAL. Either way, you’re just one terrorist attack, oil crisis, merger, economic downturn away from being on the street. Have a backup plan.

 

[Dano]

How old are you?

I passed on recall because A) I'm 40 and was 7500 ish on the list. I have descent seniority at JB (700 ish) and can hold senior reserve on the bus. I figured at UAL it would take 10 plus years to be a bus capt. B) Lets not kid ourselves with "maybe age 60 maybe 65", it WILL BE 65 very soon so UAL's stagnation will last another 5 years.

However Jetblue is a relatively young pilot group and if you take all of our current aircraft orders/options into account, we have already hired future 320 captains. All of these comments about JB guys not being happy....not true in most cases.

Bottom line is if you are young enough go UAL, if you are actually starting to pay attention to AARP stuff think seriously about Blue.

"Do you feel lucky, well do ya?"

 

[GuppyWN]

First of all I'd take the first class date offered.

Then - I'd be a little leary of BOTH airlines. JB is selling airframes and dramatically slowing deliveries. That being said - they are DELIVERIES. That means growth, even if it's slowing.

UAL has no orders. It's all about retirements there. I think it would be cool to have the ability to fly different airplanes to exotic locales but what's your career expectation like? Don't know.

Dude. You've got a tough call to make. Let us know what you do.

Gup

 

[coogebeachhotel]

Yea...there are like 500 guys from Airways. Maybe less then 10% will go back. Everyone I've flown with from Airways is happy here (JB) and staying.



Someone said "JB is played"...........I love being the underdog.

Airways guys happy? Most were going back until the merger list came out. More like frying pan vs oven....

 

[Draginass]

The future of UAL is quite uncertain. Management is still doing a poor job of getting the train back on the tracks. Merger? Not likely, I think. Pay? kinda crappy but it all is now. UAL is too big to merge, and too big to fail completely.

I think JB is going to get bought and if you don't have a union contract, you're going to suck hind tit with an integration and get stapled. Don't expect JB management to go to bat for you during a sellout.

Personally, I think I'd take my chances with UAL.

 

[bravodude]

UAL. More job security. Steady paycheck. Lots of aircraft and destination options. Easy commute.

job security and ual now thats funny!

 

[LandGreen]

I spent 4 of my 5 years at UAL commuting to reserve (my choice) and realize only now that its time I'll never get back. I was furloughed from UAL in 2003 and came to JB and am now a bus captain living in base. I'll likely make much more money over the next 5 years at JB, although, I'm likely giving up greater career earnings at UAL. Its taken me a long time to learn - and you have to realize this for yourself - you can always make money, but, you can't make time. I can't emphasize this concept enough - this is what compelled me to resign from UAL last week to stay at JB. If I lived in ORD,DEN, DCA, etc., etc., I would have gone back to UAL in 2005 and never looked back.
As stated in previous posts, pick the airline that promises the best quality of life - each have unique advantages/disadvantages and I believe both will be viable over the short/intermediate term. United will be negatively impacted by age 65 to a much greater extent and perhaps has a greater risk of merger or acquisition as well as labor issues coming to a head. Jetblue offers less career diversity at present (versus UAL) and has taken on a lot of debt which may or may not yield returns in the next 5 or 10 years.
Best of luck in your decision-making!

UAL probably will be a high risk for merger...but don't you think JB is at least as high a risk for merger or acquisition. Then you have the non union seniority integration issues to deal with at JB.

I would tend to believe that unless JB is the acquiring carrier, a merger or acquisition will be completed with a stapler. All JB pilots should in my opinion take the FIRST upgrade possible! I don't think those pilots will lose their seats in a merger, but your seniority in that seat will be frozen and move backwards until the bottom guy at (fill in the blank legacy carrier) can hold CA in an airbus. If the (fill in the blank carrier) decides to get rid of airbusses for Boeings...well the CA seats will be rebid and then JB CA's will become FO's for a long time!!

Better scenario: Go to whatever carrier is the better commute QOL, then try to get on with UPS, FEDEX!

 

[A350]

After what happened to the USAirways East guys in their "merger" with AWA under the guises of a Union/Union merger protocol, I will gladly take my chances.

The training costs alone associated with such an event would be staggering...and so would the pay to the lawyers for lawsuits. Remember how bad the training costs were for DAL? They forsook seniority, rules, contracts, past precedent, and the very fabric of what we call decent and threw it out the window letting senior pilots collect a pension before it was tossed out and stay on property to fly the heavy iron for large $$$$ while they sorted their BK chips. All at the expense of the junior pilot and all because of training costs.

A350

 

[Truckdriver]

How old are you?

I passed on recall because A) I'm 40 and was 7500 ish on the list. I have descent seniority at JB (700 ish) and can hold senior reserve on the bus. I figured at UAL it would take 10 plus years to be a bus capt. B) Lets not kid ourselves with "maybe age 60 maybe 65", it WILL BE 65 very soon so UAL's stagnation will last another 5 years.

However Jetblue is a relatively young pilot group and if you take all of our current aircraft orders/options into account, we have already hired future 320 captains. All of these comments about JB guys not being happy....not true in most cases.

Bottom line is if you are young enough go UAL, if you are actually starting to pay attention to AARP stuff think seriously about Blue.

"Do you feel lucky, well do ya?"

I agree with Dano. Most people at JB are happy. I left a few months ago to go to the big D so I wouldn't have to commute. The biggest issue I had at JB is what is in bold above. You will probably see 320 CA at UAL before you will at JB. If you do see 320 CA within 10 years at JB, you will be on reserve for a very long time. If your around 40ish, you will notice that most of the 320 captains at JB are your same age. You will retire the same time they will so there won't be many 320 guys leaving the top of the list before you leave. If you are happy being a 190 captain, then JB is a great place, but I wouldn't count on a 320 captain spot with a commutable schedule for about 15-20 years if you go now.

 

[sonic340]

Great stuff guys. I am a little familiar with the reserve system at jetblue, however, totally clueless what the reserve is like at united. Is there long call/short call, how many day stretches, do you guys have pbs and if so how is it working? I can reasonably expect to be on reserve at united for quite some time, several years most likely and need to know what to expect with that. Thanks again

 

[MEK]

Everyone mentions the "we have hired the last 320 captain already (ie 1400ish on the senority list). Yeah, I don't really think that way anymore. Who's to say the junior (320) captain won't be at 2200? FYI we have around 1900 pilots on property now.

How many (320) aircraft do we have? 105, give or take? Where is the junior captain on the senority list? 995? Do you really think we will get 100 more A320s and not have it go 1600? 1800? 2200?

Trucky says, "If you are happy being a 190 captain, then JB is a great place, but I wouldn't count on a 320 captain spot with a commutable schedule for about 15-20 years if you go now."

I don't know about that. That is his opinion. Mine is different. But it is only my opinion and like everyone elses on this website, based on speculation and guesses.