Citationshares lets 30 go

[Nolife]

...but it may be sailing to Di%k City.

and beyond...

This recession will be long and deep; too much junk has been floated on Wallstreet and in the real estate market. It will take time for everything to settle down and recover.

I think every frac will lay off at some point. How many, how long, who knows but the future looks glumy. Makes me wish I was a dildo at the Bunny Ranch right now.

 

[Greaseman]

I think every frac will lay off at some point. How many, how long, who knows but the future looks glumy. Makes me wish I was a dildo at the Bunny Ranch right now.[/quote]

LMFAO!

A dire thread and yet we still have a little humor. Best of luck to all of you guys/gals. This is indeed a sh&tstorm however you are the best pilots in corporate aviation and will undoubtedly land on your feet.

Good luck to all.

 

[flyzimex]

Makes me wish I was a dildo at the Bunny Ranch right now.

I wish I was that ALL the time..

Great stuff Nolife :laugh:..

And of course really sorry to hear about the furloughs, no matter who it is..

 

[airjackson]

I think that CS did the best they could with a bad situation. It looks as if they did right by the pilots as far as furloughing in seniority, offering early-outs with a fairly generous buyout, LOAs, etc.

I would also venture to say that had they done differently, it would have only strengthened the momentum toward a union.

 

[Publishers]

Theses are difficult times for sure. What I would point out is that other than Netjets, these other companies pilot groups are too small to be significant for organization.
Citation is a good company and treats their employees well. The best thing they have going along with Flex is that they support manufacturer units. The impact on the others that stand alone will be greater and cause much more stress.

 

[brokeflyer]

ya got that right.....we support more mfg products than all of them.

 

[blueridge71]

I wasn't totally surprised by this. When you sit idle as much as I have over the last few months, you begin to wonder.

Apparently the problem is the same with many of the fractionals. It isn't a management problem; it is a sales problem. CS isn't shrinking; it is growing at a slower than planned rate. It would be nice, but not responsible, to keep paying pilots that don't have any aircraft to fly. That isn't good management. Just ask some of Detroit's largest employers.

If this is anyone's fault, you can blame the sales department. Of course, sales are down because of the economic crisis. The economic crisis came about because of all the bad paper on Wall St. Wall St. was flooded with bad paper because Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac encouraged companies to make subprime loans and provided a secondary market for those loans. The government itself created the subprime market with the Community Reinvestment Act. See: Trickle down does work!

Let's all just hope and pray that Citizen Obama can work a miracle, whether through action or inaction, before this mess gets any worse. I'm not holding my breath.

My sympathies to all the furloughees. I was furloughed just after Christmas a few years back.

 

[hangarrat]

Apparently the problem is the same with many of the fractionals. It isn't a management problem; it is a sales problem. CS isn't shrinking; it is growing at a slower than planned rate. It would be nice, but not responsible, to keep paying pilots that don't have any aircraft to fly. That isn't good management. Just ask some of Detroit's largest employers.

If this is anyone's fault, you can blame the sales department. Of course, sales are down because of the economic crisis. The economic crisis came about because of all the bad paper on Wall St. Wall St. was flooded with bad paper because Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac encouraged companies to make subprime loans and provided a secondary market for those loans. The government itself created the subprime market with the Community Reinvestment Act. See: Trickle down does work!

Excellent summary statement. It sucks, but it is what it is. The question to answer is "how do we survive this economy" and not "who at our own companies can we point our fingers at"


Good luck to all those impacted by these employment losses. It is obvious it will be touching us all, just some of us more so than others.

 

[rigger]

From Aviation International News

At least this will be all (as far as anyone knows) based on the Quote from Steve.

Fractional share provider CitationShares is reducing the size of its pilot workforce by 30 people, according to CEO Steve O’Neill. The Greenwich, Conn.-based company is offering an early retirement and temporary leave-of absence alternative to all pilots before determining how many will be affected by an involuntary furlough, he said. “The current worldwide business environment has slowed such that aircraft deliveries for 2008 have been postponed and planned deliveries for 2009 have been reduced. Given the fact that we hire pilots well in advance of the arrival of aircraft, we find ourselves in an overstaffed position.” Furloughed pilots will receive two months salary and full benefits through the end of March. CitationShares has also laid off eight office staff. “There are no other reductions in force planned at this time,” O’Neill said. “We have not changed our staffing models for flight crewmembers. And we believe that post-January 9 we will be adequately staffed for expected demand throughout 2009.”

 

[Humphreybogart]

CitationShares is still the CLASS of the fractional industry. Our management handled a horible situation with the upmost respect that can be imagined. It is unfortunate for the people involved, but it is business. We need to respect that and move forward.

 

[OHGOON]

CitationShares is still the CLASS of the fractional industry. Our management handled a horible situation with the upmost respect that can be imagined. It is unfortunate for the people involved, but it is business. We need to respect that and move forward.

Yes sir, how high sir, may I have another. I have had the distinct displeasure of reading your crap for years now and am amazed that you can breath at all considering how far up managements nether-regions your head is.

If you had been alive during Casablanca's time you sure would not have been Bogey but rather Joseph Goebbel,s shoe polisher.

Textron/Cessna has the money to keep them on without even stretching themselves, and yet they resort to this. This will just cost more money to retrain folks later.

I feel for those let go. Good luck to you all and here is to hoping that better things are ahead for all of us!

 

[Sparse]

This will just cost more money to retrain folks later.
quote] If there is a later.

 

[Sparse]

This will just cost more money to retrain folks later.

If there is a later.

 

[FRACTRASH]

It's kind of funny Bogart, Just because you think management handled the situation with class, you are automatically up their A$$. It sounds like someone is jealous that we get treated fairly without the constant fight. We might not be as big, but we are a much better ran company then most.

 

[Snakum]

Interesting. I was talking to a few CS guys in GSO last Friday (there were three CJs there from CS Friday afternoon) and one of the guys said their trip had been canceled and that they would likely "sit for a few days". Not a good sign, most likely. But everyone there was big on the company and said they really liked it. Must be a pretty good place to work. Sounds like they're doing right by their people.

Best of luck guys!

 

[EatSleepFly]

But everyone there was big on the company and said they really liked it. Must be a pretty good place to work. Sounds like they're doing right by their people.

Sssshhhh. Nobody is allowed to speak well of their employer or enjoy their job around here unless they work for O Holy NetJets. :nuts:

 

[Publishers]

The concept that because you can afford to keep people around in non-productive activity, you should. Obviously Cessna does not see this as some short term deal but one which will take some time.

 

[flagshipper]

I would love to know what SO said on the phone yeserday.....I wonder if they cancelled their christmas parties and maybe held off on a few new vp positions

 

[XTW]

There is no Holiday party this year. That was announced a couple of months ago.

X

 

[blueridge71]

I agree with Bogey. Furloughs are never good, but I can't see how the company could have handled it any better.

 

[FR8DOG777]

How's it working for you?
What?
Being clever.

Almost as clever as quoting myself on flightinfo, but not quite as clever as a mom and pops chief pilot or D.O. from Miami chiming in here explaining why 160 of us fractional pilots are unemployed. But hey I got an A in college economics so I will be writing Paul Volcker to let him know what I think we need to do to get the economy back on track. We get it, the industry is in a downward spiral and many of us are suffering the consequences of poor management decisions. Hats off to Citation shares management group who handled this with due respect to the service and longevity of the pilots involved. As for publishers he should stick to what he knows and let us go about our business.

 

[brokeflyer]

who's publishers?


never heard of her

 

[RCR5]

CS is a GREAT company and is trying their best to make this work. Steve is being upfront with us on why and what to expect (as he should) and the lines of communication have been open for ANY and ALL questions.

We will get through this. This has been the most unbelievably good job I have ever had. WE need to stick together CS folks. Hopefully for us all, we will get to continue to work here.

 

[milky]

Ok, so what you are saying (if I understand correctly) is that if management does their job and the company is profitable, they will get a bonus and a raise in March and the company continues to operate.
That must mean if they are not profitable, they are not doing their job then they don't get a bonus or raise in March and the company fails to be a viable entity to the employees, shareholders and passengers.

Now, to continue along that line of thought, as a pilot, if you fly you get paid if the company is profitable or not, because that's not your job (to make the company profitable),you still get paid.

So, if you want to get a bonus and a raise in March and you feel that you should get a chunk of that money, perhaps you should be a manager and not just a pilot. It's a different set of challenges and most pilots don't want to deal with it, (that's why they fly..shhhhh don't tell anybody) and it's just easier to moan and groan about those that are willing to take the responsibility for all of it rather than just one flight at a time.

Hey, you're not allowed to post anything on this site that is not PURELY pro-labor no matter how much it makes sense. Pilots SHALL never lose their jobs despite how it affects the bottom line of their company. Managers and executives SHALL always be bashed for being overpayed if they make anything equal to or greater than $1. Please go turn in your wings wherever you fly because you are obviously not worthy of being a pilot or posting on this board.

I'm not making it up, it's in the user agreement you agreed to when you signed up for this site....

 

[Freedom]

Understanding Bob19....

The reason he has stuck his nose into the Citation Shares Pilots business is that he realizes if Shares goes Union, the balance of power will have shifted for good in the Fractional Industry.

That won't bode well for a Union Buster like Bob19. Once Options is done with him, the only place left for him in the Fractionals will be Flex. And with 3 out of 4 of the major Fractional players gone Union, his percentages of keeping Flex non Union would be remote.

Bob19 is just trying to preserve as much of his potential Union Busting territory as possible.

Don't take it personal guys. We have already established Bob19 to be a Pathological Liar. But unlike political mistakes made in the past, we will not let his political attacks go uncountered.

He will be shot down continually. Kind of makes for a good way to kill time while on standby.

Bob19...Shooting him down. Pure Entertainment.


Freedom is Not Free

 

[Semore Butts]

HAHAHAHA!!!!! Good one Milky, youve made it clear!

Milky:

Pilots SHALL never lose their jobs despite how it affects the bottom line of their company. Managers and executives SHALL always be bashed for being overpayed if they make anything equal to or greater than $1


Semore:

Well if you don't like it quit crying about it and be a pilot! Take B-19 with you, you can be "stick buddies".

May your Christmas be every bit as good as the pilots you have furloughed.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

I'am not so junior in age FYI these guy pushing 70 with kids out of college so on and so forth get out of the way so i can put my kid thru college can't get aviation out of blood rent an airplane for christ sake not trying to be an ass but it is what it is let the young bloods make a living they'll all be dead soon anyway LOL if they have not saved enough buy now shame on them i planned on retiring by age 58 thats out the window with the old timers taking up space sorry but that is the way i feel about it

That is the longest run-on sentence I have ever read...

Perhaps he was simply channeling Faulkner?
:laugh:

 

[Publishers]

freight-- if you do not know someones background, you should not comment on it. What I try and do is share some of the 35 years of my aviation experience in the corporate, 135, and 121 fields, all of which I have held senior positions. Many of the posts here take on side and never bother looking at the other side.
My interest in fractional companies in particular is because most of the models have not worked. Other than Netjets, which has a pile symbiotic company relationships, what other frac is really or ever has produced decent profits.
I am a business analysist by nature and profession. Obviously if the models cannot work consistently, the jobs for pilots are going to go away.
As a businessman, I gave up on figuring out the airline business a long time ago. I have owned a number of aircraft, traded about $800m in used airliners, but never had any desire to be a commercial pilot flying for hire.

 

[FR8DOG777]

Well pat yourself on the pack and paste on another gold star

I find it offensive that you are compelled to tell us all what we're doing wrong, yet you don't work at a fractional. You are coming here and rubbing salt in unemployed pilots wounds. It would be easy for me to jump in the majors forum and explain to those pilots what is wrong with the airline industry. We are all scrambling to become more efficient and profitable. Your views too are onesided, frac pilots are not a dime a dozen. We will continue to focus on what we can control as pilots and provide the best service to our customers and hopefully the higher ups will find a way to attract and retain owners. It is easy for you to analize what has gone wrong, but you offer nothing constructive. With that said I retract the namecalling in the previous post.

 

[Publishers]

I never intend to rub salt in an unemployed pilots wounds. If I was trying to make a point to someone who is thinking of a career in fractional flying, I would merely caution. On the one hand, it has created more flying jobs than would have been created in the corporate world, on the other, it just has not been very successful past Netjets and there because they have their hand in the sales pie, the support pie, the training pie, the everything pie.
There are a number of things I think they can do to become more solid. Get out of the card business. Put penalties on owners that are geographically disadvantaged. Do not sell 1/16's or even 1/8ths. Will this reduce revenue and market, yes. Make it more solid yes. The airlines are always in the crapper because there answer for everything is more. Sometimes the answer is less but focused. In the end, it will produce less volatility and more pilot security.