CitationAir How Much Longer

[The Dude Abides]

Bravo! A man with sense.

Which man would that be? Certainly not rigger.

 

[The Dude Abides]

WELL HERE IS THE UNION POSITION.....THERE ARE TWO PARTS TO LOOK FOR IN THIS DOCUMENT. THE FIRST IS THE PART ABOUT THE NEGOTIATORS GETTING AN LOA ON FURLOUGH AND THE ABSOLUTE BEST PART IS NO MATTER WHAT YOU DON'T STOP PAYING YOUR DUES EVEN THOUGH YOU KNOW YOUR GONNA BE OUTTA HERE.......AFTER ALL THE IBT NEEDS YOUR 80 bucks a month more than your family does..... Never mind the fact that any loa is useless with a DAMN CONTRACT and the IBT is at least 2 years away from having a contract..... My advice to numbers 100 and down....stop PAYING ANYMORE DUES YOU HAVE NO CONTRACT AND WILL NOT HAVE ONE BEFORE YOU ARE OFF PROPERTY...Read on

Well, here's a rational position (See? NOT yelling here). You kind of jumped around in your statement so, I'll paraphrase a little to help make sense of it all.

Ok, so, not a single person has been furloughed yet. There have just been rumors of furlough (Yes, BS really started it. He shouldn't have even said it if he didn't have data. The rumors are really his fault). There hasn't even been a legitimate announcement of who, what, when, etc. So what that means is that nothing has changed. Yes, you should absolutely make sure your family is cared for. No argument there. But, but....when/if I get furloughed I will benefit from any agreement the union accomplishes on my behalf. You appear to see it from a selfish point of view. I pay my dues faithfully and will do so until my last day. So if you don't pay YOUR dues then feel free to thank me for supporting the union that got you an agreement that you still benefit from even though you didn't pay dues. You're welcome.

Oh, and an LOA is not useless without a contract. You seem to have no clue of the relationship so you should really look stuff up before you make statements like that. Just because you say it's a fact doesn't make it a fact.

Speaking of "facts", there you go again, you say that the IBT is at least 2 years away from a contract. Now, you didn't write "fact" in there, but your statement appears to be one of fact (or at least your attempt to make it a fact). It must be great having the power to see into the future.

 

[The Dude Abides]

And neither will one person being furloughed at citationair....that's my point they may have a union and an MEC but they have no contract, and soon no members as they once did. The negotiations just started they are years away from any type of contract. So they can negotiate all they want......to what end? How many pilots will be left when a contract finally gets signed? How long will the IBT wait around to get no dues???? They will not be interested In a group of 60 guys.....no money in that business model.......and non of this will help they furlough guys in the next few months.....waste of money if your a low on the totem pole guy....save your dues and save your perdiem you will need it!

Hell if the IBT cared like they always say of or thier brothers they would suspend dues for any pilot 100 numbers and down! How about it IBT you made 8 billion last year how about letting pilots keep thier own money!!!

HA! There's that ability to see into the future again. That's what I love about you rigger, you see everything ssoooo clearly.

 

[G4dude]

What a shame. Hopefully the owners and pilots will be absorbed by the other fracs.

 

[Freedom]

Perhaps just a Union Busting tactic???

There will be furloughs to scare everyone, count on it.

Happened at Options; will happen here as well. Classic Ford and Harrasment scare tactics.

But could the real intent here be to make everyone BELIEVE they are on a sinking ship? And therefore, why bother paying dues and as a result, weaken your leadership's ability to hire the help they need to fight against a company the size of Textron?

Then, a White Horse in Management rides in to the save the day from the false threats they created, but guys, we need to focus on efficiency to keep from further furloughs. We need to work together again. We need our direct relationship back.

Then when the Union support is weakest (because everyone wants to make Management happy so they can keep their jobs), Ford and Harrasment launches their Union Decertification campaign.

Shouldn't be too hard to Win; what did you guys vote in the Union by just over 50%??? Options guys were so pissed off it was 67% in favor, and yet Ford and Harrasment still attempted to divide and concur. They may have an easier time doing so with the narrow victory at Citation Air.

You didn't think by voting in a Union, Management would just roll over and play dead did you? Perhaps these plans are real. But I find the timing very interesting. This is right up the alley of the Mental Warfare games Ford and Harrasment plays.

Good luck to all those affected. Even if the plans are BS, there will certainly be some furloughed/terminated just to strike fear into the hearts of the pilot group.

Count on it.

 

[BentOver]

There will be furloughs to scare everyone, count on it.

Happened at Options; will happen here as well. Classic Ford and Harrasment scare tactics.

But could the real intent here be to make everyone BELIEVE they are on a sinking ship? And therefore, why bother paying dues and as a result, weaken your leadership's ability to hire the help they need to fight against a company the size of Textron?

Then, a White Horse in Management rides in to the save the day from the false threats they created, but guys, we need to focus on efficiency to keep from further furloughs. We need to work together again. We need our direct relationship back.

Then when the Union support is weakest (because everyone wants to make Management happy so they can keep their jobs), Ford and Harrasment launches their Union Decertification campaign.

Shouldn't be too hard to Win; what did you guys vote in the Union by just over 50%??? Options guys were so pissed off it was 67% in favor, and yet Ford and Harrasment still attempted to divide and concur. They may have an easier time doing so with the narrow victory at Citation Air.

You didn't think by voting in a Union, Management would just roll over and play dead did you? Perhaps these plans are real. But I find the timing very interesting. This is right up the alley of the Mental Warfare games Ford and Harrasment plays.

Good luck to all those affected. Even if the plans are BS, there will certainly be some furloughed/terminated just to strike fear into the hearts of the pilot group.

Count on it.

Good points.... I think someone on here said CS was telling owners as well? That would be a huge bluff to put out there if they were also informing owners of their "plan".

 

[FlyingFred1224]

Good points.... I think someone on here said CS was telling owners as well? That would be a huge bluff to put out there if they were also informing owners of their "plan".

They sent out emails the same day to the owners...so they are aware. And, yes, too big a bluff...especially since quite a few will take their money back and go somewhere else...

 

[Freedom]

Really sorry to hear that guys...

True.

If the Owners start to make redemptions, its time to look elsewhere.

It would be really sad to see Citation Air go away.

I remember when NetJets got their big contract back in 2005, and Citation Shares reacted by matching the base Salaries, though certainly not the work rules.

Perhaps the One Way Charter pay as you go model is starting to take hold in the minds of the Owners.

Really sad. I will always remember the relationships with Fractional Owners. Much more like you were a trusted family employee, than the turn and burn relationships in the Charter biz.

The only thing close to that has to be a quality Part 91 Owner to work for. And we all know how unstable that can be. Company hits rough financial waters, first to go is the jet.

Good Luck guys.

Hopefully the forced age related retirements will have a positive impact on our end of the industry as well.

 

[UAL-GSO]

Good points.... I think someone on here said CS was telling owners as well? That would be a huge bluff to put out there if they were also informing owners of their "plan".

I've had three owners come up in flight to question us about it in the last two days alone. To say they are "less than pleased" is an understatement.

 

[BentOver]

I've had three owners come up in flight to question us about it in the last two days alone. To say they are "less than pleased" is an understatement.

Yeah, as much I distrussed management's in general, I don't think they base every business decision/announcement on pilots and their Unions.... Meaning I don't think every announcement they make is an attempted Union bust...

If they are truly telling owners of their plan, then I'd say it has more legs than not..

Hopefully another poster is right and CS's charter/card market is really showing growth enough to where the fractional side is no longer a needed entity..