CitationAir How Much Longer

[Fresh Air]

If I may add a bit of perspective from an ex-RTA pilot... Raytheon ditched us back in 2002 shortly after we had voted to NOT unionize. While the prospect of having to deal with an organized labor force may well have played some role in the decision, I believe it was more about whether or not CA was selling enough airplanes to make a nice profit for Momma Textron.

 

[BentOver]

Anybody ever see the UBS 2012 fractional forecast put out? CS's had lost roughly 42% of their business over the recession. (Along with FLOPS and FLEX, Netjets wasn't included in the study as far as I could tell)

This all had nothing to do with CS Unionizing.. It was a business decision, and I strongly believe it was a business decision accelerated by new orders of aircraft from a certain company. Cessna has been hurting, they needed a huge order to put something on the books.

 

[PCL_128]

You did not ask the rest of the question, " The union was voted in to try and help those pathetic managers up there to try and help". How were they planning on doing this? Increased productivity has never been a rallying point on any union issue I have ever death with. The one I always heard was more pay, more days off, and increased cockpit manning.

yip, apparently you haven't been paying attention to pilot unions in a few decades, then. Most MECs and independent unions are all about productivity improvements. The more productive we are, the more money the company has to pay us, the more stable the company is, and the more days off we can get. We're all about productivity.

 

[vrb115]

Thank you PCL

 

[pilotyip]

yip, apparently you haven't been paying attention to pilot unions in a few decades, then. Most MECs and independent unions are all about productivity improvements. The more productive we are, the more money the company has to pay us, the more stable the company is, and the more days off we can get. We're all about productivity.

I guess I am just old fashioned based upon my union exposure from the good ole days.

 

[vrb115]

Trust me Yip CS has been blowing through money like it grows on trees....I f it wasn't for the pilot group here..CS would have lost lots more money...can't tell you how many times we ??? why they do the things they do and save them $$$...so yes a union was needed

 

[BentOver]

I guess I am just old fashioned based upon my union exposure from the good ole days.

Keep livin 30 yrs ago..Works well, you garner alot of respect here...

 

[imacdog]

Notice YIP conveniently forgets the efficiency improvements in the IBB 2007 contract. Then again who really listens to a manager at a bottom feeding freight operation anyway.

 

[G4dude]

yip, apparently you haven't been paying attention to pilot unions in a few decades, then. Most MECs and independent unions are all about productivity improvements. The more productive we are, the more money the company has to pay us, the more stable the company is, and the more days off we can get. We're all about productivity.

I hope you are right about that. I haven't seen that yet at NJA, unfortunately.

 

[G4dude]

If I may add a bit of perspective from an ex-RTA pilot... Raytheon ditched us back in 2002 shortly after we had voted to NOT unionize. While the prospect of having to deal with an organized labor force may well have played some role in the decision, I believe it was more about whether or not CA was selling enough airplanes to make a nice profit for Momma Textron.

That is pretty much what I am saying, that the union stuff probably played a role. That's all.

 

[G4dude]

Dear G4 SCAB,

Its not "academic" at all. Because when you find out a man would not have your back in a fight and would further go over and enthusiastically help your attacker, you can't respect, trust, or suffer his company.

I hope we find out who you are in the mean time, so we can expose you to your fellow pilots for what you are.

"After God had finished the rattlesnake, the toad, and the vampire, he had some awful substance left with which he made a scab. A scab is a two-legged animal with a corkscrew soul, a water brain, a combination backbone of jelly and glue. Where others have hearts, he carries a tumor of rotten principles. When a scab comes down the street, men turn their backs and Angels weep in Heaven, and the Devil shuts the gates of hell to keep him out...." Jack London

And defecate in my roller bag? How quaint. That's a lot of poop, as most of my G4 and G5 colleagues would scab too, I think. So save it up, buttercup.

 

[Xcorporate]

No they wouldn't. Not sure why you are so hell bent on dividing the group. I'm concerned how black and white things are to you concerning Netjets. I don't always agree with the union but it's here to stay. A more productive direction may be for you to attempt a change that's meaningful. Maybe volunteer, or run for a position that would give you an official platform. You may actually have some ideas that would make things better. What you are doing on these (assumed anonymous) boards helps nobody, including yourself.

 

[G4dude]

No they wouldn't. Not sure why you are so hell bent on dividing the group. I'm concerned how black and white things are to you concerning Netjets. I don't always agree with the union but it's here to stay. A more productive direction may be for you to attempt a change that's meaningful. Maybe volunteer, or run for a position that would give you an official platform. You may actually have some ideas that would make things better. What you are doing on these (assumed anonymous) boards helps nobody, including yourself.

I am telling the union fans that there is a significant number who don't support them and their attitude. Reality is sometimes unpleasant I guess. I know only 4 or 5 pilots in the G4 and G5 fleets who support the union, although I am sure there are quite a few more, since the gold tie guys and gals have crossed over. Speaking of dividing, have you seen what CE750 and Imacdog have posted about me? I think I have kept a civil tone. Black and white? I have said the union at NJA is better than I have seen elsewhere so far, and am hoping Luthi departs the leadership position soon, for the sake of all of us.

 

[imacdog]

You could always move onto a non-union corporate gig, G. All you'd have to do is show up and offer to work for 10K less than their current pilots. I'm sure that would be well-received!

 

[The Dude Abides]

That is pretty much what I am saying, that the union stuff probably played a role. That's all.

Right as usual. Bill, the CEO, made it very clear that the goings on were business related and have nothing whatever to do with the union. Happy, or do you still think it's because of the union!? What do you think his response will be, Bentover?

 

[pilotyip]

I hope you are right about that. I haven't seen that yet at NJA, unfortunately.

Notice YIP conveniently forgets the efficiency improvements in the IBB 2007 contract. Then again who really listens to a manager at a bottom feeding freight operation anyway.

dog how G4 doesn't see it that way?

 

[DadofSeven]

Words from the CEO's mouth. This was in the making for sometime. Union had nothing to do with it. They are working with the union now to come up with a package for the furlough guys. 30 planes gone by years end. At least 100 furloughed and who know how many down grades. I thought this was a CA thread and not a NJ bitch thread.

 

[7777]

Thank you. Now, you get to be blocked by the Crazies too! What a shame about a very nice company, which Cessna was planning to hang in there with until the union came along and tipped the balance. It is so obvious to me too.

That would be nice, though it is for that reason (the crazies) I rarely post here anymore. Wouldn't matter to me at all.

 

[The Dude Abides]

That would be nice, though it is for that reason (the crazies) I rarely post here anymore. Wouldn't matter to me at all.

Anyone else tearing up as we watch these guys ride into the sunset? See 'ya, boys.

 

[The Dude Abides]

No they wouldn't. Not sure why you are so hell bent on dividing the group. I'm concerned how black and white things are to you concerning Netjets. I don't always agree with the union but it's here to stay. A more productive direction may be for you to attempt a change that's meaningful. Maybe volunteer, or run for a position that would give you an official platform. You may actually have some ideas that would make things better. What you are doing on these (assumed anonymous) boards helps nobody, including yourself.

Excellent post, Xcorporate!