Citation Shares: After 10 year $103,000?

[NJA Capt]

I don't know too many fractionals that have grown more than 200% in the 3yrs I've been here.

Don't know any huh? FLOPS marketing department was using the same strategy 3-4 years ago. CS added approx 40 aircraft in your 3 year span while NJA has added approx 70. It is easy to claim you are "fastest growing" when you have a small fleet.

 

[FRACTRASH]

What's the Citation 12 going to look like? Maybe a big Sovereign.

Don't you NJ pilots think that, just maybe all the big brass at CS studied what worked and didn't work at the other fractionals, so we try not to make the same mistakes. You study history so you don't repeat it. CS management doesn't want a union on the property either. So, instead of butting heads with the pilot group, they are doing everything in there power to provide a good work environment. If I recall NJ pilots have been unhappy for a long time. Management there didn't want to budge to give your pilots anything, forcing you to take more drastic measures. Even though we are doing the same job. We are talking about to completely different cultures.

 

[Humphreybogart]

As I understand it a group of CS pilots mailed an entire seniority and address list to 1108. It's also my understanding that there is a reasonably large group of pilots trying to get an organizing drive going at CS. I was told this group of pilots approached 1108.

If this is true, which I really doubt, I hope our management finds out who these people are and fire their ass. Unions are made for people who are afraid to do their job. We will NEVER have a need for a union here at CS, because our management will do everything it takes for that not to happen. It's funny that you union goons find all these CS pilots that want a union. I'll bet you anything that I know alot more CS pilots than you do and they all agree that we don't want a union here. That is why they chose to work here, NO UNION. So I think it's time for you to get off of your soapbox. Preach your religion elsewhere.

 

[bluepost]

It is true. I was one of the NJA pilots providing YOUR management with our contract info and TA so they could adjust your pay to match our TA before it was even voted in. Notice how they ignored the 401k match, scheduled rest, hourly OT and the holiday pay. Me and my CS "partner" guessed this one early on.

Also, since nobody here knows who I am except for one or two NJ guys, I'm putting this out there not to brag...really...but just to show how much not having the above icing can cost you....I am a 7th year captain for pay so at this point my YTD base salary is $48,000 at the 6 month mark and my W2 shows $69,500....20k extra for 6 months NOT flying the BBJ and NOT on the reserve. If I don't fly a single extended day the rest of the year I would finish the year around 125K, if I do one a month like I plan...it will be 130ish. If I didn't extend AT ALL this whole year it would of been around 118K...still 20k in extras...or $1500 a month...that pays a lot of union dues AND beer...and NO medical cost.

I know putting the above info out is tacky, but I sense this quiet calm over at CS and the feeling that CS got the "same deal" as NJA and it is not accurate..and keeping the info out in the open and having guys push your pilot friendly managment is the only way things get better...(ie training on your week off). So I put this info out there with the hopes that with your flexible relationship with management you guys can as you have in the past help "raise the bar".

 

[gunfyter]

Don't you NJ pilots think that, just maybe all the big brass at CS studied what worked and didn't work at the other fractionals, so we try not to make the same mistakes. You study history so you don't repeat it. CS management doesn't want a union on the property either. So, instead of butting heads with the pilot group, they are doing everything in there power to provide a good work environment. If I recall NJ pilots have been unhappy for a long time. Management there didn't want to budge to give your pilots anything, forcing you to take more drastic measures. Even though we are doing the same job. We are talking about to completely different cultures.

Trash,

Actually I agree with a lot of the points you just made. As long as management does not make any of the mistakes others have made... I would not expect a big union move.

But I can remember like yesterday the FLOPS pilots singing songs of praise when we would see them on the road about the Sainted Ken Ricci.

Also remember... Its not just management that causes need for a union. UNFORTUNATELY...Certain pilots work the system and get Special Deals for themselves while the rest carry the pack. (Working for extra pay on their days off and spending their regular duty days at home is an example.) Our Union also puts a stop to these type situations..

 

[gunfyter]

Not bad for an Excel guy BluePost. When are you coming to the Falcon? But with all this bragging you are going to make us take concessions in 2010. Loose lips sink ships

 

[jpilot]

If this is true, which I really doubt, I hope our management finds out who these people are and fire their ass. Unions are made for people who are afraid to do their job. We will NEVER have a need for a union here at CS, because our management will do everything it takes for that not to happen. It's funny that you union goons find all these CS pilots that want a union. I'll bet you anything that I know alot more CS pilots than you do and they all agree that we don't want a union here. That is why they chose to work here, NO UNION. So I think it's time for you to get off of your soapbox. Preach your religion elsewhere.

Guess you need to read up on union organizing 101. You can't fire people for union organizing. Or should I say, you can, but will suffer consequences. Just ask the RTA union organizers that were fired in the FLOPS merger. They are laughing all the way to the bank. Ignorance is bliss, isn't it?!!!

 

[CastofThousands]

If this is true, which I really doubt, I hope our management finds out who these people are and fire their ass. Unions are made for people who are afraid to do their job. We will NEVER have a need for a union here at CS, because our management will do everything it takes for that not to happen. It's funny that you union goons find all these CS pilots that want a union. I'll bet you anything that I know alot more CS pilots than you do and they all agree that we don't want a union here. That is why they chose to work here, NO UNION. So I think it's time for you to get off of your soapbox. Preach your religion elsewhere.

You can crawl into bed each night knowing 1108 will be a constant and consistent voice advocating for professional aviators. You, and the rest of your management team, can wake up each morning with the benefit of that understanding. Not if, but when you take advantage of the CS pilot group, we will be their preferred alternative. Simply put, don't make the traditional management mistakes, because 1108 representation is always an option, at the pilot group's discretion. At that point in time management is only along for the ride.

As long as that is understood we will all be better off. I know 1108 doesn't need the extra work, their are plenty of management teams making these mistakes. So, to everyone's benefit, take care of your pilots, and treat them as professionals.

Respectfully,

 

[FRACTRASH]

I'm not saying CS got exactly the same deal NJ received. Give it time, we are a very young and growing company. One thing that is constant right now at CS is change. NJ been around for what? 15 years more than CS. You should have more benefits. My point is everyone is happy to be with a young striving company, who treats us very well. I can't wait to see where we will be in 10 years. Give it time.

 

[skiandsurf]

I'm not saying CS got exactly the same deal NJ received. Give it time, we are a very young and growing company. One thing that is constant right now at CS is change. NJ been around for what? 15 years more than CS. You should have more benefits. My point is everyone is happy to be with a young striving company, who treats us very well. I can't wait to see where we will be in 10 years. Give it time.

It would be great to live in a perfect world, but we dont. You think that your company treats you great, well everyone knows that Southwest Airlines treats their employees great. Guess what, they are also one of the most heavily unionized airlines. Sure the pilots dont belong to ALPA or Teamster, they have their own SWAPA. Management will never give you things because they want to be known as the good guys.

...I do agree, that unions do help support the weak, but they also provide more for the rest of us.

 

[Jetz]

I say again...

You can crawl into bed each night knowing 1108 will be a constant and consistent voice advocating for professional aviators. You, and the rest of your management team, can wake up each morning with the benefit of that understanding. Not if, but when you take advantage of the CS pilot group, we will be their preferred alternative. Simply put, don't make the traditional management mistakes, because 1108 representation is always an option, at the pilot group's discretion. At that point in time management is only along for the ride.

As long as that is understood we will all be better off. I know 1108 doesn't need the extra work, their are plenty of management teams making these mistakes. So, to everyone's benefit, take care of your pilots, and treat them as professionals.

Respectfully,

Why all the F.U.D.?

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showpost.php?p=1052771&postcount=73

 

[CastofThousands]

Why all the F.U.D.?

If you're are management it could be construed that way.

If you're a line pilot it's nice to know you have options. I doubt the line pilots fear options. 1108 represent line pilots, management has their own union, "the good ole boy network." Simply because pilots are far more intelligent than management gives them credit for I am comfortable with the fact pilots have these options. The reason management could construe it as FUD is because management hates when pilots have options outside of the options management wants to provide. In other words, it's FUD if you're management because you know you will step on your Johnson sooner or later and pilot don't forgive, or forget, very easily - that's why they make excellent union members.
This FUD's for you :beer:

Sincerely,

 

[Guitar rocker]

Guitar Rocker = Pat Benatar? Woo, thats way off base dude. Maybe Debbie Gibson or ahhh whats that girl who was on the Partridge family? Gotta keep on keep on keep on keep on dancin all through the night..... No, that was the brady bunch. Marcia marcia marcia!!!

Muahahahah.

I like the new rocker, all cheery talking about beer. Nice metamorphosis.

I dont know Safety dude....between wondering what underwear I wear and talking about Debbie Gibson...........I think that you are making us all wonder about your preferences here. Lemme guess, you also like that sweet berry beer..........you ought to try Guiness, Bud, or Fosters.....or something that isnt girly for a change.

Gimme a Fender strat and a Line 6 amp with some good distortion and I'd be happy with that while you play air guitar, tip toe around the house and sing along to all those great Debbie Gibson songs which you know by heart. You dont wear that silly hat she wore too, uh???

 

[Guitar rocker]

I'm not saying CS got exactly the same deal NJ received. Give it time, we are a very young and growing company. One thing that is constant right now at CS is change. NJ been around for what? 15 years more than CS. You should have more benefits. My point is everyone is happy to be with a young striving company, who treats us very well. I can't wait to see where we will be in 10 years. Give it time.

That will be ineteresting to see. For now, I am happy for you guys and for those that I do know over at CS. I understand what you are saying Trash and enjoy it while it lasts....hopefully so for a long time.

 

[Jetz]

If you're are management it could be construed that way.

If you're a line pilot it's nice to know you have options. This FUD's for you :beer:

Sincerely, my a$$

The F.U.D. you spew in the post quoted here: http://forums.flightinfo.com/showpost.php?p=1052771&postcount=73 is clearly aimed at Pilots, not management.

You want pilots to fear that they need to organize now because WHEN netjets and CS merge (because as you say of a secret meeting with Textron ah, you mean Cessna...LOL) they will be pasted. You are clearly placing FUD in the minds of those who would decide to fill out cards or not. Both CS Management and Pilots would view your spew the same way. Your union thug ways are so transparent, and those wise Pilots who appreciate having options, as you say, are wise enough to know better.

As you say, this FUD is for them. That post was clearly (albeit cheaply in a foreign country) manufactured for them to take hook line and stinker. "Oh, you may have it good now but check back with me in three years and we will see." Come on.

I heard they are biting over in the Avantair thread. Its all fished out over here.