Citation Shares: After 10 year $103,000?

[Guitar rocker]

You're right...it was late and I didn't put much thought into what I wrote, I guess...but still, why attack CS management because they didn't just hand us a raise with no prompting? Yours didn't either...you had to wrestle with them over it for several years. As I've said before, I'm glad you did...I think we've all benefited from it. But the only reason this thread is still going on is because some Netjets blowhard had to interject some snide remarks that we've all heard a thousand times. It just gets old...every thread on the fractionals board doesn't have to be about Netjets and the almighty IBT

Stinkbug, I'm not atacking your mgmt. I just think that it's funny that they cant give you a raise without knowing what we are gonna get. Thats all. I dont think your mgmt is evil....you said it, not me.

 

[RNObased]

The union attitude combined with buisness jets is not a good combination. When your clients get tired of being flown around by grumpy union guys, they will get out and buy their own airplane, which will most likely be cheaper to operate. Company pilots tend to treat their people better than unionized crybabies flying "clients". Or maybe they will go to citation shares were they will be treated better. Remember it is a service industry, and the rich folks that can afford it, demand high quality service.

You honestly have no idea what you are talking about. Very misinformed to say the least.

 

[WheresRocky]

Rocker, I have read your musings in great detail. My conclusion is this: I think you are wearing your panties too tight!!!

Why do your types spend so much time analyzing another companies pilots lifestyles?

Your chronic need to complain is quite obvious. Now that you have little to whine and obsess over with your contract issues, you spend so much of your precious time whining and arguing about other pilots issues that have nothing to do with you! I do not understand this need to fuss and muss over these issues. You are a certifiable obsessive. This seems to be a common thread amongst you union types.

Do yourself a favor. Lesson the chafing by looseninig the undergarments. Its the only explanation my simple mind can come up with for your behavior.

ROFLMAO

Visions of Joan Jett or Pat Benatar when I read that. Guitar rocker with tight panties. LOLOL.

 

[FRACTRASH]

Even if our management gave us a raise and used NJ as a blueprint. What business is it of any NJ pilot? Worry about your own business and move on. Just keep providing Five Star service to your owners and go home and drink beer. Lets get over this topic. We don't care why they give us a raise, just keep treating us good and we will never need a union on the property. As far as seeing us doing all kinds of duties on the ramp and just shaking your heads because your contract says you don't have to do anything is wrong. This is the easiest and most fun for the money I've ever had. lets all just grow up and talk about something that betters us all.

 

[dime line]

Flight Options management is better than both CS and Net Jets, so there

 

[learflyer]

Incorrect, that is the way it used to be, but you did get 10 days off after the 10 day tour. Now it is a series of 5 and 6 day tours to swap the schedule.

Why the argument anyway. CS has some things NJ doesn't have and NJ has some things CS dosen't have. The botom line is that where ever you are, if you don't like it, leave.

I stand corrected! :beer:

 

[Guitar rocker]

Even if our management gave us a raise and used NJ as a blueprint. What business is it of any NJ pilot? Worry about your own business and move on. Just keep providing Five Star service to your owners and go home and drink beer. Lets get over this topic. We don't care why they give us a raise, just keep treating us good and we will never need a union on the property. As far as seeing us doing all kinds of duties on the ramp and just shaking your heads because your contract says you don't have to do anything is wrong. This is the easiest and most fun for the money I've ever had. lets all just grow up and talk about something that betters us all.

By Fractrash

"To all you NJ guys who complain about CS, it just shows how bad it eats away at you for being second best!! We'll be taken care of, you can bank on it."

Growing up did you say? With that comment? Mmmmm.... We can let that one slide, so lets move on.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Even if our management gave us a raise and used NJ as a blueprint. What business is it of any NJ pilot?

I think the ones who did ALL of the heavy lifting to provide said blueprint may comment on said blueprint until blue in the face. That's OUR business.

You simply benefited from our model with no effort once so ever. It's fine. I would feel awesome about it too.

There's nothing like easy money. Beware... it disappears just as easily.

 

[FLYLOW22]

As far as seeing us doing all kinds of duties on the ramp and just shaking your heads because your contract says you don't have to do anything is wrong.

The only service our contract prohibits us from doing is flying tired, hungry or sick. It also prohibits unbriefed wake-up calls at min rest even though we've been briefed for more than min rest... oh but wait... that's how 91K is SUPPOSED to work.


Outstanding service... yeah, our Owners get it from us; and they love us for it. If anything, the Owners who are familiar with our contract are happy we have one that enhances THEIR safety.

 

[Guitar rocker]

I think the ones who did ALL of the heavy lifting to provide said blueprint may comment on said blueprint until blue in the face. That's OUR business.

You simply benefited from our model with no effort once so ever. It's fine. I would feel awesome about it too.

There's nothing like easy money. Beware... it disappears just as easily.

Well said FLYLOW22.

 

[FRACTRASH]

First of all, if you haven't figured it out, I only say that second best comment to get under the skin of the NJ guys who complain endlessly on here.

As for flying tired and hungry, we don't do either. I've personally thrown in the towel because I was tired and had nothing but support from the company. They don't want to jeopardize safety. You shouldn't have to have that in a contract, that's just common sense. If your hungry order a crew meal. most of the time we have big enough breaks to get something and Before you say it, yes we do pay $10 for our crew meals. That's still cheaper then union dues.

 

[FRACTRASH]

Instead of wasting our breath on this stupid subject, lets talk about something that benefits us all and I don't mean union talk.

 

[RNObased]

Instead of wasting our breath on this stupid subject, lets talk about something that benefits us all and I don't mean union talk.

Like talking about beer???

 

[Humphreybogart]

Like talking about beer???

I like beer. And I can afford more beer because I don't have to pay any UNION DUES!!

 

[Guitar rocker]

I like beer. And I can afford more beer because I don't have to pay any UNION DUES!!

Bogart, come man...enough already. Here is what your pal Trash said:

"Instead of wasting our breath on this stupid subject, lets talk about something that benefits us all and I don't mean union talk."

Do what your brother here proposes instead of worrying about our union dues.

 

[Humphreybogart]

Bogart, come man...enough already

For once I agree with you Rocker. I was just being funny!!

 

[Guitar rocker]

For once I agree with you Rocker. I was just being funny!!

I'm readin yah...

 

[Ultra Grump]

I like beer. And I can afford more beer because I don't have to pay any UNION DUES!!

I can afford more beer now than 8 months ago. So can CS pilots. So can Flex pilots. Notice a trend??

 

[FRACTRASH]

I like the trend. yes to more beer.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Yes.

I can afford $400 OT dollars more in beer just today SO FAR thanks to more beer loving pilots who towed the line in the past.

 

[CastofThousands]

Even if our management gave us a raise and used NJ as a blueprint. What business is it of any NJ pilot?

This is a question that's worthy of a sincere response. I know I am only speaking for myself here, but it matters to me because I care about the profession. I don’t know a NetJets pilot, and I know many, that are anything but happy for the CS pilots. I have been involved with 1108 in many different capacities, and fought long and hard to raise the standards within the fractional industry. When I was informed of CS pilot improvements it was, and is, icing on the cake, very rewarding. But the simple answer to your question above is because I/we care about our profession, the pilot profession. We are not pilots looking for a sweet spot in aviation; we work to make our profession a sweet spot. Many at 1108 worked to make your sweet spot a little sweeter, and they are asking other to do the same.

Every job in aviation goes through cycles. Oddly enough it’s Local 1108 that’s seeking to provide stability. Ultimately the objective is to provide job security with professional wages, benefits, and working conditions while removing wages from the competition. In other words, we don’t want to see management and shareholders rewarded by exploiting pilot and their families.

It’s our business because we care. We are pleased to see CS pilots are happy, or at least content for now. I hope CS management keeps up with the market over time. What I believe others are attempting to convey is organizing, receiving NMB certification for union representation, serving Section 6 notification, and bargaining a first contract takes years not months. I believe they are suggesting it’s best to start the process sooner, as opposed to later. But, again, to answer your question – it’s because we care about our profession, not just our existing job.

Respectfully,

 

[Jetz]

Give it up

This is a question that's worthy of a sincere response. I know I am only speaking for myself here, but it matters to me because I care about the profession. I don’t know a NetJets pilot, and I know many, that are anything but happy for the CS pilots. I have been involved with 1108 in many different capacities, and fought long and hard to raise the standards within the fractional industry. When I was informed of CS pilot improvements it was, and is, icing on the cake, very rewarding. But the simple answer to your question above is because I/we care about our profession, the pilot profession. We are not pilots looking for a sweet spot in aviation; we work to make our profession a sweet spot. Many at 1108 worked to make your sweet spot a little sweeter, and they are asking other to do the same.

Every job in aviation goes through cycles. Oddly enough it’s Local 1108 that’s seeking to provide stability. Ultimately the objective is to provide job security with professional wages, benefits, and working conditions while removing wages from the competition. In other words, we don’t want to see management and shareholders rewarded by exploiting pilot and their families.

It’s our business because we care. We are pleased to see CS pilots are happy, or at least content for now. I hope CS management keeps up with the market over time. What I believe others are attempting to convey is organizing, receiving NMB certification for union representation, serving Section 6 notification, and bargaining a first contract takes years not months. I believe they are suggesting it’s best to start the process sooner, as opposed to later. But, again, to answer your question – it’s because we care about our profession, not just our existing job.

Respectfully,

Give it up, isnt going to happen. Next topic........

 

[FRACTRASH]

CastofThousands, I'm glad you care about are profession as a whole. Though I truly believe NJ pilots voted in a union and fought for years to better there own quality of life. I really don't think CS was on anyones mind.

 

[CastofThousands]

I have no doubt there will be a day when we must work together - that's aviation, a small community with highs and lows. In that regard, I will not give it up, and at that point in time many will be grateful. Again, I wish all the best for the CS pilots. I see no immediate need for the CS pilots to unionize. There is no doubt in any reasonable person's mind that the CS pilots received improvements as a result of the NetJets pilot group and Local 1108. There are many challenges in this profession and professional courtesy shouldn't be one of them. That goes for NJA, FLOPS, FLEX, CS, and AVANTAIR pilots.

You asked why - I answered - if you don't want an answer, don't ask the question.

Best Regards,

 

[FRACTRASH]

CastofThousands, Why does it always go right back to the we got you a raise banter. What do you want? Would it help if we praised all the NJ pilots and there beloved local 1108. Maybe I'll put a billboard up in Teterbore thanking all the NJ pilots for the raise my company gave me. Would that be enough?
I'll say it again, move on for god sake.

 

[CastofThousands]

I will be happy to spell it out for you. As I understand it a group of CS pilots mailed an entire seniority and address list to 1108. It's also my understanding that there is a reasonably large group of pilots trying to get an organizing drive going at CS. I was told this group of pilots approached 1108. So when you say give it up, and move on, I suggest you talk to your own pilots. I am not blinded by the fact there are pilots who don't want to unionize, you shouldn't be ignorant to the reality there are pilots who do want to unionize. Guess what? 50.01% prevail under the RLA as well as within the union. I will point out, to my knowledge, 1108 has never officially or unofficially indicated they had an interest in organizing CS. Simple reason, as long as CS management doesn't try to set low industry wages that whipsaw 1108 pilots, all is well.

My personal opinion here, NetJets pilots are in the drivers seat for ALL union to nonunion consolidation. Through a couple of industry reporters, supposedly "in the know," it has been confirmed that NetJets and Textron, I mean Cessna, have been mending some wound left by Cessna's old CEO - Russ - who started CS. One reporter said they "can't confirm or deny" a meeting with NetJets and Textron, I mean Cessna. I do know NetJets Cessna 680 and XLS orders jumped dramatically last month, and right now over 75% of NetJets new aircraft are Cessna (public information).

The 1108 leadership is well versed and studied on the issues. It would be safe to assume the Flight Options drive all came together after is was publicly confirmed by NetJets Chairman that there was no possibility of a merger with Flight Options. In addition, it's my understanding there is a private equities firm scouting Raytheon Aircraft Company (not Flight Options). Now, the little I know about the RLA, union to nonunion pilot group consolidation is very simple. Your wages are within 20% of the wages at NetJets, 83% on NetJets Class 1 wages to be more specific. If I were a betting man, which I am not, I would wager on securing Flight Options pilots a first contract is the primary interest at 1108. NJI as a secondary interest, with Flex & AvantAir (if there pilots pick it up a bit) tied for third. Each individual in the 1108 leadership carries specific assignments, so my guess is they are all first on someone's list.

So as long as you're happy, we're happy. Capisce?

Again, Best Regards,

Moderator reviewed

 

[Some Dude]

Hmm, I just got paid friday. My check from NJA shows that I am on track to make $189,628 this year without anymore overtime. I think NJA is paying me well do to the hardwork of our union 1108. I doubt that anyone else from another fractional will come even close to that.

 

[FRACTRASH]

Sone Dude, It must me nice to fly your BBJ. You should make that in that kind of equipment.

 

[FRACTRASH]

CastofThousands, I can guarantee, you are talking about a few unhappy pilots who wouldn't be happy anywhere. I work for the company and we are quite happy without the union. Not one person I've flown with wants a union on our property. You can take that to the bank. I'll tell you what, when I become a truck driver I'll call the 1108, so I don't have to sleep and shower at truck stops.

As for XLS orders, Textron is a business and you are the larger company for now. Simple math says you should have more aircraft orders. We are a very young fractional. I don't know too many fractionals that have grown more than 200% in the 3yrs I've been here. We must be doing something right. When hell freezes over and your beloved 1108 winds up on our property, it will be the end of the culture at CS which I grown to like. As an ex union pilot who's been so grossly misrepresented by cut throat unions, it would be time for me to grow a beard and start pounding nails for a living.

 

[PURPLEHAZE21]

Why is it...On the message board there's so much loyalty from NJ pilots defending there company and drinking the "cool aid". Yet on the road, I have'nt met one NJ pilot that likes the company or job. Ironic...talk is definately cheap on the message board. GO CS !!!!!!!!!!