Citation down @ VNY?

[SoundBarViolatr]

I don't think the thread has shifted its focus but rather, naturally shocked at the behaviour exhibited by rumpanumbnuts (hint - delete your comment, numbnuts). No one has forgotten about the 2 airmen and friends that were lost.

Has anyone had experience with these doors coming undone inflight? Has anyone seen one depart the airframe? I've seen a Citation V fastener come undone in flight and whistle its way to the ground. Is the "door not locked" light in the cockpit slaved to the lock or the fasteners in the CJ? How does the CJ perform on single engine V1 cuts compared to other jets?

 

[Say Again Over]

In my experience with Cessna nose doors (400's, 500's) they must be locked, the latching mechanism is crap.

 

[Tgaug6300]

CJs are very good single-engine performers (especially with the Rudder Bias system). You are correct in that the Nose and Aft baggage compartments will give the crew an Annunciator if one is unlocked. Any man made object could fail, but I have not heard of the lock failing (not that it couldn't happen). I hate to speculate.

 

[English]

1) Straight CJ does not have the rudder bias system.

2) Pilot witness reports the gear never came up.

 

[B1900FO]

When in doubt, fly the airplane...

 

[Way2Broke]

The guy who jumped out was probably just going outside to clean the engines out and lost his footing.

MOD INPUT: Rumpletumbler recieved a short, but not so sweet vacation from flight info for his comments. Please do us all a favor and let this be the last mention of his comments on this thread so that it does not get hijacked anymore than it already has been. God bless the families of those involved and lets hope that we all can learn something from the accident so that we can all be better, safer pilots.

Way2Broke

 

[400A]

When in doubt, fly the airplane...

How do we know they did not?

 

[SoundBarViolatr]

How do we know they did not?

Capt Frank is no marginal performer. I and many others can attest to this.

 

[400A]

Capt Frank is no marginal performer. I and many others can attest to this.

I have read many of you saying that. That was the reason for my post. I thought his remarks were crappy.

 

[SoundBarViolatr]

I have read many of you saying that. That was the reason for my post. I thought his remarks were crappy.

Concur. But (personally) that's only because I know the individual.

 

[JediNein]

The FO and possibly PF was no slouch either.

They hit a wire on the way down which caused this to be a fatal accident, current theory is they were trying to put the thing down on the street (Havenhurst). I haven't heard any theories as to why they didn't climb above 200', why the nose baggage door was open, and what else was going wrong to cause them to not abort the takeoff, yet try to land off-airport where they were, especially with the wide open area next to the VNY VOR.

 

[SoundBarViolatr]

The FO and possibly PF was no slouch either.

They hit a wire on the way down which caused this to be a fatal accident, current theory is they were trying to put the thing down on the street (Havenhurst). I haven't heard any theories as to why they didn't climb above 200', why the nose baggage door was open, and what else was going wrong to cause them to not abort the takeoff, yet try to land off-airport where they were, especially with the wide open area next to the VNY VOR.

what was FO's background? I didn't know him that well. PM me if you'd like. Thanks -- Just heard services are on Saturday.

 

[JediNein]

Area fliers mourning two pilots
BY DANA BARTHOLOMEW, Staff Writer
LA Daily News
Article Last Updated: 01/15/2007 09: 50 : 39 PM PST

One veteran pilot taught teens to fly when no one else would. The other left a lucrative business to chase his dream as a corporate jet pilot.

Capt. Frank Kratzer, 72, and Fernando Fernandez, 49, were aboard the ill-fated charter jet flight that crashed last week near Van Nuys Airport, company officials announced Monday.

"It was a great tragedy for both," said David Burke, spokesman for Sun Quest Executive Air Charter of Van Nuys, the company owned by Kratzer that operated the plane.

"Frank, I would say, was the absolute consummate professional - and an ambassador for aviation."

Fernandez, he added, loved flying enough to switch careers and would also be missed.

Their twin-engine Cessna Citation jet was engulfed in flames Friday morning after it plummeted into a vacant lot north of Van Nuys Airport. Some saw a baggage door open during takeoff.

The business jet was headed for Long Beach to pick up passengers bound for Arizona.

The National Transportation Safety Board is investigating the Sun Quest crash. A second Sun Quest incident - a midair collision five years ago over Van Nuys Airport with a plane owned by actor Jim Carey - resulted in no downed aircraft or injury.

While Los Angeles County coroner's officials had not confirmed the identities of the pilots, the San Fernando Valley aviation community has mourned their loss.

"Two of our best have `gone West,"' said fellow pilot Russell Watts, 54, of Sylmar, who knew both men for years at Whiteman Airport in Pacoima. "It's unfortunate that the good guys are the ones to go."

Kratzer, of Northridge, had logged more than 37,000 flight hours as a commercial jet pilot for Western and Delta airlines.

In the early 1980s, he launched Mobile Flight Training at Whiteman Airport, which later became Sun Quest Flight School. In 1992, he founded a Sun Quest charter service company in Van Nuys.

An excellent instructor, he had trained an entire generation of pilots, friends say.

"Chris" Fernandez, as he was also known, was a self-employed Hollywood studios electrician before pursuing a career as a pilot, associates said.

A student of Sun Quest, he had logged several thousand flight hours and had flown for the company since August. He had been active in the Latin American Pilots Association and regularly flew his Beechcraft Baron to Mexico.

"He was one of those really easy-going guys who always had something positive to say," Watts said.

It was Katzer and his wife, Joanne, who offered to train more than a dozen Aviation Explorers after other companies had turned them down.

They offered discounts to kids who couldn't afford flight school and "Capt. Frank," as he was known, regaled the teens with big-jet stories.

"He was the salt of the earth," said Ruth Logan, co-founder of Aviation Explorer Post 747.

"He loved kids."

[email protected]

(818) 713-3730

 

[SoundBarViolatr]

Nice post my friend.

 

[400A]

Sounds like great guys.

 

[B1900FO]

I have read many of you saying that. That was the reason for my post. I thought his remarks were crappy.

400A. My apologies for making my remarks seem crappy. The only reason I metioned this, is because of this quote from a previous page...

Witness Steve Purwin, a corporate jet pilot, said the plane's left-hand nose baggage door was "wide open" as it took off.
The jet was veering side to side, with its nose high at a low speed, he said.
"He was right on the verge of stall," Purwin said.

 

[400A]

400A. My apologies for making my remarks seem crappy. The only reason I metioned this, is because of this quote from a previous page...

I understand, but there was nothing in that statement that indicated that crew was not doing everything in their power to fly the aircraft.

 

[SoundBarViolatr]

I'm sorry I was not able to make your memorial this morning Frank...