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Citation down @ VNY?

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Frank's been through multiple emergencies after V1 before.


31 years of wide body experience will do that to a guy.

One of the few remaining good people in this industry, Frank opened doors to strangers, and I was one of them. He was instrumental in my transition from military to civilian and helped my father for his transition from airline to corporate. He was a good friend and a mentor. He will be missed.
 
I've flown with Capt. Frank in the past on a few occasions. Let me tell ya, if that airplane could have been saved, Capt. Frank was the one man who would have saved it. A very humble man and a great pilot. May they rest in peace.


That was my point in case I was misunderstood. IF the door was open, + an engine was gone + additional airframe damage, I do not believe anyone could have flown it out. Just a horrible deal. I would not disrespect the crew like that.

I have heard of them opening before on Citations and other Cessna designs, but this is the worst I have heard of.
 
Small Jet Crash in VNY

Small Jet Crash in Los Angeles Kills 2

By DAISY NGUYEN, Associated Press Writer
Saturday, January 13, 2007


(01-13) 01:42 PST Los Angeles (AP) --
Federal authorities were scouring the wreckage of a small jet crash to determine what caused it to go down near a suburban airport, killing two people aboard. Several witnesses said a nose compartment door was open as the plane lifted off.
Moments after the twin-engine Cessna Citation lifted off Friday morning from Van Nuys Airport in the San Fernando Valley, the pilot radioed the tower with a request to return, the National Transportation Safety Board said.
The business jet, which was heading to Long Beach to pick up two passengers and continue to Prescott, Ariz., was cleared to land but it never made it.
A tower controller noticed the plane "wobble" as it turned around, then it crashed about a half mile north of the airport and within 100 feet of several homes, said NTSB investigator Howard Plagens. No nearby structures appeared to be damaged.
The jet was carrying a full load of 3,400 pounds of fuel and burst into flames, said Assistant Fire Chief Tim Manning. Firefighters sprayed foam and quickly put out the fire, he said.
Steve Hofmann, who lives several doors from the accident site, said he heard a "loud thunderclap" and then saw the plane go down.
"I immediately ran down to see what had happened and whether there were any survivors," Hofmann said. "I heard an engine winding down ... then the fuel tanks exploded, and I pretty much knew that no one survived that."
The two people aboard were crew members of Sun Quest Executive Air Charter, said Joe Miller, a dispatcher with Sun Quest Executive Air Charter, which operated the flight. He declined to comment on their identities, and the county coroner's office has not positively identified the victims.
Witness Steve Purwin, a corporate jet pilot, said the plane's left-hand nose baggage door was "wide open" as it took off.
The jet was veering side to side, with its nose high at a low speed, he said.
"He was right on the verge of stall," Purwin said.
Van Nuys is the busiest general aviation airport in the nation, with an average of nearly 500,000 takeoffs and landings annually. The 730-acre facility is owned by the city's Los Angeles World Airports department and is used by private, corporate, charter, flight instruction and maintenance operations. The airport is often used by entertainment industry figures.
On a single day in 1986, seven people were killed in two crashes while landing at Van Nuys. A plane carrying six people including a film and commercial director went down two hours after a crash killed a boyfriend of game show hostess Vanna White.
In 2000, a jet owned by actor Jim Carrey, who wasn't aboard, and a twin-engine turboprop operated by Sun Quest clipped each other on approach to Van Nuys but both landed safely.
 
The guy who jumped out was probably just going outside to clean the engines out and lost his footing.

I'll tell you what you snot nosed douch*bag...from one that has buried 5 close friends and brothers from within this aviation community in the last 6 years, and NEVER having buried one in a car fatality, this is very tough to take. Lets remember that this is a dangerous profession and we as a pilot community instill a confidence among the public and comments like that, whether mocking a over-dramatized media report or not are EXTREMELY inappropriate. The public comes to these boards and reads this crap too. To have one pilot turned against another is ridiculous. Especially since most of us on this board have more time copying weather than you have total time. We need to stand together, mourn for the loss, figure out what happened and how to prevent it next time. You're job is to pass the respect you've given others on to your students, not cracking a wisea*s joke at the cost of 2 highly respected and qualified pilots.
 
I thought that "Guests" couldn't get on to read anymore without a login?

I think his comment was out of line, but it was meant as a poke to the idiotic media. Give the guy a little slack, I'm sure he won't open his mouth and insert foot anytime soon.

God bless the families of the two pilots.
 
Yeah, there'd be a lot less drama if you'd all just let it go. Wouldn't that look professional? Take the high road.

And I also doubt that the public at large are paying 10 bucks these days to come and watch us hurl insults at each other.

Somehow you've let this shift the focus away from the real matter at hand. Let's remember what's important: 2 people are dead.
 
Yeah, there'd be a lot less drama if you'd all just let it go. Wouldn't that look professional? Take the high road.

And I also doubt that the public at large are paying 10 bucks these days to come and watch us hurl insults at each other.

Somehow you've let this shift the focus away from the real matter at hand. Let's remember what's important: 2 people are dead.
 
I don't think the thread has shifted its focus but rather, naturally shocked at the behaviour exhibited by rumpanumbnuts (hint - delete your comment, numbnuts). No one has forgotten about the 2 airmen and friends that were lost.

Has anyone had experience with these doors coming undone inflight? Has anyone seen one depart the airframe? I've seen a Citation V fastener come undone in flight and whistle its way to the ground. Is the "door not locked" light in the cockpit slaved to the lock or the fasteners in the CJ? How does the CJ perform on single engine V1 cuts compared to other jets?
 
In my experience with Cessna nose doors (400's, 500's) they must be locked, the latching mechanism is crap.
 
CJs are very good single-engine performers (especially with the Rudder Bias system). You are correct in that the Nose and Aft baggage compartments will give the crew an Annunciator if one is unlocked. Any man made object could fail, but I have not heard of the lock failing (not that it couldn't happen). I hate to speculate.
 
1) Straight CJ does not have the rudder bias system.

2) Pilot witness reports the gear never came up.
 
The guy who jumped out was probably just going outside to clean the engines out and lost his footing.

MOD INPUT: Rumpletumbler recieved a short, but not so sweet vacation from flight info for his comments. Please do us all a favor and let this be the last mention of his comments on this thread so that it does not get hijacked anymore than it already has been. God bless the families of those involved and lets hope that we all can learn something from the accident so that we can all be better, safer pilots.

Way2Broke
 
The FO and possibly PF was no slouch either.

They hit a wire on the way down which caused this to be a fatal accident, current theory is they were trying to put the thing down on the street (Havenhurst). I haven't heard any theories as to why they didn't climb above 200', why the nose baggage door was open, and what else was going wrong to cause them to not abort the takeoff, yet try to land off-airport where they were, especially with the wide open area next to the VNY VOR.
 
The FO and possibly PF was no slouch either.

They hit a wire on the way down which caused this to be a fatal accident, current theory is they were trying to put the thing down on the street (Havenhurst). I haven't heard any theories as to why they didn't climb above 200', why the nose baggage door was open, and what else was going wrong to cause them to not abort the takeoff, yet try to land off-airport where they were, especially with the wide open area next to the VNY VOR.

what was FO's background? I didn't know him that well. PM me if you'd like. Thanks -- Just heard services are on Saturday.
 
Area fliers mourning two pilots
BY DANA BARTHOLOMEW, Staff Writer
LA Daily News
Article Last Updated: 01/15/2007 09: 50 : 39 PM PST

One veteran pilot taught teens to fly when no one else would. The other left a lucrative business to chase his dream as a corporate jet pilot.

Capt. Frank Kratzer, 72, and Fernando Fernandez, 49, were aboard the ill-fated charter jet flight that crashed last week near Van Nuys Airport, company officials announced Monday.

"It was a great tragedy for both," said David Burke, spokesman for Sun Quest Executive Air Charter of Van Nuys, the company owned by Kratzer that operated the plane.

"Frank, I would say, was the absolute consummate professional - and an ambassador for aviation."

Fernandez, he added, loved flying enough to switch careers and would also be missed.

Their twin-engine Cessna Citation jet was engulfed in flames Friday morning after it plummeted into a vacant lot north of Van Nuys Airport. Some saw a baggage door open during takeoff.

The business jet was headed for Long Beach to pick up passengers bound for Arizona.

The National Transportation Safety Board is investigating the Sun Quest crash. A second Sun Quest incident - a midair collision five years ago over Van Nuys Airport with a plane owned by actor Jim Carey - resulted in no downed aircraft or injury.

While Los Angeles County coroner's officials had not confirmed the identities of the pilots, the San Fernando Valley aviation community has mourned their loss.

"Two of our best have `gone West,"' said fellow pilot Russell Watts, 54, of Sylmar, who knew both men for years at Whiteman Airport in Pacoima. "It's unfortunate that the good guys are the ones to go."

Kratzer, of Northridge, had logged more than 37,000 flight hours as a commercial jet pilot for Western and Delta airlines.

In the early 1980s, he launched Mobile Flight Training at Whiteman Airport, which later became Sun Quest Flight School. In 1992, he founded a Sun Quest charter service company in Van Nuys.

An excellent instructor, he had trained an entire generation of pilots, friends say.

"Chris" Fernandez, as he was also known, was a self-employed Hollywood studios electrician before pursuing a career as a pilot, associates said.

A student of Sun Quest, he had logged several thousand flight hours and had flown for the company since August. He had been active in the Latin American Pilots Association and regularly flew his Beechcraft Baron to Mexico.

"He was one of those really easy-going guys who always had something positive to say," Watts said.

It was Katzer and his wife, Joanne, who offered to train more than a dozen Aviation Explorers after other companies had turned them down.

They offered discounts to kids who couldn't afford flight school and "Capt. Frank," as he was known, regaled the teens with big-jet stories.

"He was the salt of the earth," said Ruth Logan, co-founder of Aviation Explorer Post 747.

"He loved kids."

[email protected]

(818) 713-3730
 
Last edited:
400A said:
I have read many of you saying that. That was the reason for my post. I thought his remarks were crappy.

400A. My apologies for making my remarks seem crappy. The only reason I metioned this, is because of this quote from a previous page...

Witness Steve Purwin, a corporate jet pilot, said the plane's left-hand nose baggage door was "wide open" as it took off.
The jet was veering side to side, with its nose high at a low speed, he said.
"He was right on the verge of stall," Purwin said.
 
400A. My apologies for making my remarks seem crappy. The only reason I metioned this, is because of this quote from a previous page...

I understand, but there was nothing in that statement that indicated that crew was not doing everything in their power to fly the aircraft.
 

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