Chautauqua Triumph

[Skychief]

The sad truth of the matter is EVERY mainline and regional pilot group out there is facing this type of situation. Right now it is CHQ being awarded some flying that XJT is currently doing....obviously this sucks for those of us at XJT, and those at CHQ benifit from it.

Several years ago, it was XJT doing flying that CAL had been doing....this started from the first day the ERJ showed up on property. This situation is happening / will happen at EVERY mainline / regional airline out there.

Ironically, I can remeber several co-workers who bragged about doing the CAL flying and even went so far as to say they wanted to do more CAL routes. The only thing these guys could see was how it was benifiting them...quicker upgrades, more pilots below them on the seniority list, etc. They could not see how it was doing just the opposite to the CAL pilots.

Now, a couple of years later, we at XJT are on the short end of the stick.....and it really sucks! Some of our pilots will POSSIBLY lose their CA seat or even worse be furloughed. In a couple more years, it could be CHQ on the short end of the stick.

Unfortunatly, this guy doesn't realize that in a couple of years he too could be in the position the XJT pilots are ( possible CA seat loss, furloughs, etc.). It just doesn't make sense for any of us to brag about taking any flying because it is likely to be given to someone else in the future.

No one should be jumping for joy when this stuff happens....the way this industry works, things tend to come full circle....as I said before, no matter what airline we work for, at some point in our careers, we are ALL going to be on both sides of the fence with this issue.

We can only hope that at some point in time throughout our careers we will all find a job where we will not have to endure this year after year. Unfortunatly, I think the ball was dropped on this issue years ago when the ERJ / CRJ was to "small" to be a mainline aircraft....if these aircraft had never been given to the regionals, all of this flying would be done by mainline pilots at mainline wages without the whipsaw.....

Who knows if we will ever be able to work without worrying about being whipsawed.....I sincerely hope we can fix this, but I don't have much confidence.

As for those at CHQ, I harbor no bad feelings. I only ask that you act with the same compassion for us at XJT that you would want if / when this happens to your pilot group!

Skychief

 

[headinclouds]

Just curious how Brandon Coxton's name came up in this conversation. CloudRoller: Do you know this guy personally?

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Just curious how Brandon Coxton's name came up in this conversation. CloudRoller: Do you know this guy personally?

Since this thread was created by a toolbox it just seemed appropriate to mention the king of the tool shed himself.

 

[El Ocho]

Just keep blaming the pilots... it's all our fault... We suck!

So much power to change everything exactly into the way it perfectly "should" be and so little action. Morons!

 

[777_Jackpot]

The only thing these guys could see was how it was benifiting them...quicker upgrades, more pilots below them on the seniority list, etc. They could not see how it was doing just the opposite to the CAL pilots.
Skychief

With all do respect, I don't blame them. That is how the game works. Worrying about the other guy is contrary to how business is done. The airline industry is no different then any other industry in America. It has competition just the same as the automotive industry, retail, etc. By doing the SAME EXACT JOB as everyone else, but for less, is how you win the game. My hat goes off to CHQ on job well done on kicking everyone elses azz.

 

[PropPiedmont]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but COEX hasn't lost any flying to any other airline yet. Doesn't COEX have until September to rebid for the flying that CHQ just bid on?

 

[beechcowboy]

beech cowboy,

While a majority of your post is quite well written, there are a few things I want to take to task.

First, not many people in low seniority positions at RAH are "little boys" obviously we have one or two as evidenced by some posts, but lately, most are furloghed 121 pilots, or people such as yourself, leaving Colgan in search of something better.

Second, as you have pointed out in numerous posts, you are new to union stuff. I want to let you in on a seceret. If we go with your suggestion and not fly, that is considered a "self-help action" and since we are not in the appropriate phase of negotiations, that would translate to an "illegal work stoppage". Also, there is no COEX flying...It is CO's flying...And if we followed that train of logic, you shouldn't have worked at Colgan, because that was CHQ's flying, Allegheny's flying, PSA's flying and Piedmont's flying.
If we back up enough, it should all be mainline flying.

Good luck....

The point is not in the choice of words, but rather the mental capacity that is represented by many of our new hires in the airline industry. "Little boys" is one such way of describing that capacity. Listen to these fellas bicker about who flies better jets, who's contract is better, who's company is kicking who's ass. Give me a freakin' break. You hit the nail on the head. CAL has every right to disperse their flying in any way they see fit. Hell, they can bring in all the regionals to fly 20 planes each if they so desire. The point is, that the power rest in the hands of a truly unionized pilot force. This ALPA thing doesn't work b/c we are all looking out for our own interests. Do we need a new ALPA, not necessarily, we need an attitude adjustement on the part of all of ALPA's members. As for the rules of the RLA, they are worthless. They are all targeted in such a way as to minimize the impact to big business, while creating the illusion that the employee has some sort of power. I call BS. I'm not saying strike, I'm saying tell your mgmt, as a collective pilot group, that you do not wish to prosper off another regional's demise. I know, I know, it is wishful thinking and I am full of crap. You know what though, I can hold my head high b/c I get along with my crews, I give my passengers the best ride I can give them, and I do my job with a professional attitude, while having a good time and promoting some good 'ol fashioned good will. I just hope I don't have to be a professional on the bottom of someone else's seniority list again.

P.S. - I'm sorry, I should have clarified that XJT was my first experience with ALPA, not unionization. I know where you are coming from on the rules, etc., but lets face it, they aren't doing anyone any good right now. As for leaving Colgan, you again hit the nail on the head. I left them for the very reasons you stated. I gained insight into how they were gaining business and conducting their internal operations. I could join 'em or leave 'em. I chose to give up the Captain's chair for a better QOL. I hope I can still have that.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

The sad truth of the matter is EVERY mainline and regional pilot group out there is facing this type of situation. Right now it is CHQ being awarded some flying that XJT is currently doing....obviously this sucks for those of us at XJT, and those at CHQ benifit from it.

Several years ago, it was XJT doing flying that CAL had been doing....this started from the first day the ERJ showed up on property. This situation is happening / will happen at EVERY mainline / regional airline out there.

Ironically, I can remeber several co-workers who bragged about doing the CAL flying and even went so far as to say they wanted to do more CAL routes. The only thing these guys could see was how it was benifiting them...quicker upgrades, more pilots below them on the seniority list, etc. They could not see how it was doing just the opposite to the CAL pilots.

Now, a couple of years later, we at XJT are on the short end of the stick.....and it really sucks! Some of our pilots will POSSIBLY lose their CA seat or even worse be furloughed. In a couple more years, it could be CHQ on the short end of the stick.

Unfortunatly, this guy doesn't realize that in a couple of years he too could be in the position the XJT pilots are ( possible CA seat loss, furloughs, etc.). It just doesn't make sense for any of us to brag about taking any flying because it is likely to be given to someone else in the future.

No one should be jumping for joy when this stuff happens....the way this industry works, things tend to come full circle....as I said before, no matter what airline we work for, at some point in our careers, we are ALL going to be on both sides of the fence with this issue.

We can only hope that at some point in time throughout our careers we will all find a job where we will not have to endure this year after year. Unfortunatly, I think the ball was dropped on this issue years ago when the ERJ / CRJ was to "small" to be a mainline aircraft....if these aircraft had never been given to the regionals, all of this flying would be done by mainline pilots at mainline wages without the whipsaw.....

Who knows if we will ever be able to work without worrying about being whipsawed.....I sincerely hope we can fix this, but I don't have much confidence.

As for those at CHQ, I harbor no bad feelings. I only ask that you act with the same compassion for us at XJT that you would want if / when this happens to your pilot group!

Skychief

How many CAL 737's are parked in the desert? How many CAL pilots are on furlough because we took their flying? There is a BIG difference between taking someone's potential growth, and taking their jobs and leaving pilots on the street. We may have taken potential growth away from mainline pilots, and I am not saying that it was right, but the fact remains that we did not take their jobs.

 

[Alchemy]

Not to mention we had a FREAKING FLOWBACK with those guys for the love of christ.

 

[8HourPilot]

You put the ! in Go.

Any of you CHQ guys wanna put Skillz in check? or are you all in support of this richard head? you dont seem to be dissagreeing with him. Seems like alot of you dirtbags like the fact you stole flying from express jet.

 

[ERJpusher]

Since this thread was created by a toolbox it just seemed appropriate to mention the king of the tool shed himself.

I have flown with Mr. Coxton, and I can say I have met very few people as kind and professional as this gentleman. Which is a lot more than I can say for most of you.

FYI, he doesn't come to this website, so if there is anyone posting as him, it's a lie.

 

[ERJpusher]

Any of you CHQ guys wanna put Skillz in check? or are you all in support of this richard head? you dont seem to be dissagreeing with him. Seems like alot of you dirtbags like the fact you stole flying from express jet.

No one is directly responding to this guy because it's retarded. We aren't getting sucked into this like you obviously are. If you can't recognize flame bait, you've got issues. He's not even a CHQ pilot.

Besides, with a screen name like yours, you don't command much credibility either.

 

[8HourPilot]

I know him well, and no he doesnt work for us.......just poking him back. Actually a pretty good guy, when he's not drunk dialing me out of bed at 4am in YOW........imp:

 

[blueridge71]

I am sure if there are ExpressJet furloughs, the pilots will be given priority interview status at CHQ.

Unfortunately, they were not even given the chance to change some pay or work rules to gain more competetive rates.

And that would help us all a lot.

Why don't you Chatauqua and Mesa guys grow a spine and fight for a better contract?

And by the way, a friend at CAL told me last night that CAL will be giving preferential hiring to the displaced XJ pilots.

 

[Skychief]

How many CAL 737's are parked in the desert? How many CAL pilots are on furlough because we took their flying? There is a BIG difference between taking someone's potential growth, and taking their jobs and leaving pilots on the street. We may have taken potential growth away from mainline pilots, and I am not saying that it was right, but the fact remains that we did not take their jobs.

Yes, I know that CAL didn't park any 737's and I know that there were no furloughs as a result of XJT taking their flying, but it is still the same CONCEPT....there were CAL pilots out there that could have potentially been Captains had XJT not done some of that flying....basically we theoretically took money out of that guys pocket......we had no choice in the matter....the flying was given to us whether we liked it or not...whether us taking that flying ment furloughs or just taking a couple of bucks out of someones pocket is irrelivant...either way, by us doing that flying, we took something away from that pilot group.....my point in the post was that ALL groups are succeptable to this problem...at some point in time (possibly in the near future) XJT is going to take someone elses flying....do you for one second think that XJT pilots would refuse to do that flying....I can tell you that unless it delt with crossing a picket line, we would do the flying....I pray if we do take someone elses flying that our pilots are professional enough not to gloat about it....unfortunatly, this is the world we work in....what goes around comes around...it will happen to all of us at some point in time! Brand scope would have prevented any of this from ever happening...unfortunately we missed that boat!

Skychief