Chautauqua Triumph

[YourPilotFriend]

Keep in mind that now the unit cost of XJet is going down considerably, so the company will need to take concessions. If i do the math right the rates come out just slightly lower than CHQ. Seems similar to what is happening at XJ. Welcome to the world of contract airlines, the lucky ones get out fast. Will it ever change? I don't think so. However if Chawawa does get the flying, Congrats to those pilots, you are now one step closer to a mainline furlough.

 

[updraft]

Isn't XJT still hiring??

 

[Skychief]

With all do respect, I don't blame them. That is how the game works. Worrying about the other guy is contrary to how business is done. The airline industry is no different then any other industry in America. It has competition just the same as the automotive industry, retail, etc. By doing the SAME EXACT JOB as everyone else, but for less, is how you win the game. My hat goes off to CHQ on job well done on kicking everyone elses azz.

I wasn't blaming anyone. I was at XJT when we were taking some old CAL routes....I certainly didn't refuse to fly those routes because they used to be flown by CAL....my point was that everyone is bashing CHQ because they won the contract for the flying, but in reality, XJT has done the same type of thing in the past.....yes I know that no one was furloughed as a result of XJT doing the old CAL routes, but that still doesn't mean that it was right.....if you re-read my post, I think you will see that I was trying say that we will all be cut by the whipsaw at some point in our careers, so gloating about how you will be upgrading at someone elses expense is just plain silly....what goes around comes around.

Skychief

 

[beechcowboy]

Isn't XJT still hiring??

Yes, minimum 300 pilot for this year, possibility of more pending the announcement of our future partners / business opportunities.

 

[updraft]

so how does that work if this 69 jet thing is going down?

 

[beechcowboy]

so how does that work if this 69 jet thing is going down?

The problem is that everyone acts as though XJT is LOSING 69 airplanes. Clearly, they are not educated on the details. XJT, per the CPA, has until September 28 to notify CAL of its intention to keep or return some or all of the 69 a/c whose capacity is to be replaced. I think it is safe to say that XJT has no intention of returning any a/c, otherwise, they would cease all hiring, save the expense, and run the current pilots ragged all summer long. According to our CEO, there are multiple viable options for the use of these a/c. One option is a fractional type of operation which we are told will yield very profitable results, another is carriage for a 121 carrier (there are two specifically promising one's at this time), another is to perform some % of flying as Express Jet Airlines, and finally there are some international operations that you may see XJT involved in down the road (still our pilots). Essentially, the wheels are turning and have been, but nothing official has been announced yet. XJT is a good company with a pretty good contract and very reasonable work rules. I would encourage anyone who is interested not to be so short sighted as to say XJT is losing 69 airplanes. Based on the plan that was laid out in front of me, I would expect to see growth and diversity for XJT out of this whole experience. It's just gonna sting for awhile until our official new relationships are announced. Trust me, after spending a year and change at Colgan, 1.5 yrs of instruction, and some charter work before finally coming to XJT, this news of CAL's has not been easy to take. I have over 2000 hours of turbine experience and would gladly except a 4th stripe, but if the worst were to happen, I could be one of the last furloughs from XJT. I do have a very vested interest in this outcome. Regardless of how uncomfortable the next few months may be for current and new hire XJT employees, I think everyone will be surprised at where we end up. For all those posts who think they should go apply to CHQ, I wouldn't be so hasty... then again, if you are ahead of my #, please go.

 

[BlueCanoe]

beech cowboy, You make points that have been made a million times before. It would be an ideal world, however, capitalism prevents it. First, if there was a national list deal, you'd NEVER get out of training!!! Each company with it's fits and starts....Wow!! I just got cold sweats thinking about all that SIM training....

Here's the deal. We all work for individual companies. You left Colgan for something better. Good for you. I have been at RP long enough that our F/O's now make more per hour than J31 CA's when I started. I make more than some mainline pilots and enjoy 14-16 days a month off. It's all a crap shoot. The hot places when I entered the show were Comair, ASA, Eagle, any US Wholly Owned, CoEx, but I wasn't smart enough for them. I came to a crappy commuter bouncing along the just making enough money to survive. We got bought by some folks with deep pockets and were given a CEO who can make deals. This airline was a hole from 1974 to 1999. Now, due to a convergence of time, money and people, we are rapidly growing. What if BB leaves? No one knows how the business model will fair. We might just go away.
Point is: we are pawns. All we do is make our lives as comfortable as we can during our tenure. We all be as professional as we can and treat our guests as best we can. It is up to the bosses to decide. XJET will join the paint swapping fray, and all I can say is, the planes will be flown for somebody, just who?

Now to the jerks who always attack our contract: Yes we are not top paid in the industry. You got us there. Actually MGT's first TA had us above CMR rates during the heyday, but we voted it down because it was concessionary in all work rules areas. Every single section of our contract is an improvement over our previous one. We have a spectacular scope (one-list) that the ALPA SHOULD have had the foresight for in the 70's, no JUNIOR MANNING, decent pay (compare our 190 rates to U. U has us in the first few years, but overall they are less...granted we have no 190's, but I am making more in the 170 than I would be as a street 190 CA), and I can't convince idiots, but our reserve rules are better than UAL. I don't know what you expect from us, but I expect no less than an improvement in all areas. Our agreement becomes amendable in 07. Watch and bash....Maybe we'll get the $100 5th yr like CoEx kept telling us we should get.

 

[dojetdriver]

According to our CEO, there are multiple viable options for the use of these a/c. One option is a fractional type of operation which we are told will yield very profitable results, another is carriage for a 121 carrier (there are two specifically promising one's at this time), another is to perform some % of flying as Express Jet Airlines, and finally there are some international operations that you may see XJT involved in down the road (still our pilots). Essentially, the wheels are turning and have been, but nothing official has been announced yet. XJT is a good company with a pretty good contract and very reasonable work rules. I would encourage anyone who is interested not to be so short sighted as to say XJT is losing 69 airplanes. Based on the plan that was laid out in front of me, I would expect to see growth and diversity for XJT out of this whole experience. It's just gonna sting for awhile until our official new relationships are announced. Trust me, after spending a year and change at Colgan, 1.5 yrs of instruction, and some charter work before finally coming to XJT, this news of CAL's has not been easy to take. I have over 2000 hours of turbine experience and would gladly except a 4th stripe, but if the worst were to happen, I could be one of the last furloughs from XJT. I do have a very vested interest in this outcome. Regardless of how uncomfortable the next few months may be for current and new hire XJT employees, I think everyone will be surprised at where we end up. For all those posts who think they should go apply to CHQ, I wouldn't be so hasty... then again, if you are ahead of my #, please go.

What do you think the cost of that growth and diversity is going to be for us? You can gauantee that if they find another 121 partner it's going to pan out somethinng like this;

Jim Ream: "Guys, we're going to be able to keep all 69 planes on property and not have to furlough anybody. This is an exciting growth oppurtunity for us at XJet. But even my surperior managemnt skills can't pull this off without a little help. Now, with the fiancial state of the industry we are not competitve on a cost basis, we are the second most expensive 50 seat provider out there. We can't continue to remain competitive at that level. Our new partner has told us that. But if we can get our cost down it's a done deal and you will all still have jobs."

What do you think is going to happen? Do you still think XJet is still going to have some of the best work rules going? Hope for the best but plan for the worst my friend. After we get bent over on the contract trying to keep 69 airplanes and the asscoiated jobs that go with them, guess who is going to be calling us whores and sellouts?

What are we going to say? "We needed to lower the bar to keep our jobs".

 

[Jack Mehoff]

No one is directly responding to this guy because it's retarded. We aren't getting sucked into this like you obviously are. If you can't recognize flame bait, you've got issues. He's not even a CHQ pilot.

Besides, with a screen name like yours, you don't command much credibility either.

you don't know....

 

[beechcowboy]

What do you think the cost of that growth and diversity is going to be for us? You can gauantee that if they find another 121 partner it's going to pan out somethinng like this;

Jim Ream: "Guys, we're going to be able to keep all 69 planes on property and not have to furlough anybody. This is an exciting growth oppurtunity for us at XJet. But even my surperior managemnt skills can't pull this off without a little help. Now, with the fiancial state of the industry we are not competitve on a cost basis, we are the second most expensive 50 seat provider out there. We can't continue to remain competitive at that level. Our new partner has told us that. But if we can get our cost down it's a done deal and you will all still have jobs."

What do you think is going to happen? Do you still think XJet is still going to have some of the best work rules going? Hope for the best but plan for the worst my friend. After we get bent over on the contract trying to keep 69 airplanes and the asscoiated jobs that go with them, guess who is going to be calling us whores and sellouts?

What are we going to say? "We needed to lower the bar to keep our jobs".

There is a simple answer to this... NO, if you don't want it, vote no. Every situation has its costs and benefits, and they should all be weighed on their merits. Relatively speaking, we are one of the more unproductive pilot groups. We have some nice amenities in our contract, but frankly, I could live without a few of those if it meant measured growith and better job security. I'm not voting for concessions, but sometimes a small concession on the micro scale yields gains on the macro scale. Again, each condition must be weighed specifically on its merits and a competent decision rendered. Everything is negotiable, we all know that, even our pilot group knows that. Do I vote for pay concessions, probably not; I don't have the money to give. That being said, on our meeting with Jim, he made it a point to say that the company was not interested in seeking concessions to keep or gain flying. To my knowledge, he has never lied to us. He may not always say what you want to hear, but he has never lied. The man looked me in the face and said this. I have to take him at his word until he proves otherwise. If our union is worth a damn, then we will work it out to the benefit of all. If not, we will be just like everyone else.

 

[777_Jackpot]

yes I know that no one was furloughed as a result of XJT doing the old CAL routes, but that still doesn't mean that it was right.....if you re-read my post, I think you will see that I was trying say that we will all be cut by the whipsaw at some point in our careers, so gloating about how you will be upgrading at someone elses expense is just plain silly....what goes around comes around.

Skychief

No. what I said was very literal in meaning. I, with every definition of sincerety, hope they (CHQ), and others alike, keep under cutting other carriers. CHQ is in a great position. By NOT having a contract that has hamstrung the company to wages that the industry cannot support (unlike most all other carriers), they can easily under bid, sustain growth and rise to greater levels of profitabilty by offering the same product. Want more flying, more pay? Supply a better, higher quality product... or do it cheaper. Simple as that!

 

[Flyin4Free]

this is the dumbest thread i have ever read. this is like the mainline guys getting pi$$ed at us for taking 'their' flying. i'm sure this flying was not awarded to the lowest bidder otherwise mesa would have gotten it....come on, we all know that! you wanna be upset with someone be upset at CAL not CHQ or XJT management. CAL was the one that put the flying up for bid in the first place. the guys at XJT would have been unhappy with AirWis, ASA, Skywest, Mesa, Horizon, Colgan, CommuteAir or anyone else that would have gotten the flying. yes, it is unfortuante that XJT lost the flying and maybe potentially furloughing pilots and anyone that's happy about that is definitely a D-bag. but don't be upset with the pilot group. that's just as dumb as being upset with the flight attendents. denying the jumpseat?? come on, what are we here, little babies?

as a recent new hire at republic airways and a furloughee from mesaba i'd be very disappointed if i have chosen to work with people that are excited about the misfortune of fellow pilots. i hope we can all look past the petty differences between pilots and extend our professional curtesy and class to all that deserve it. i'd never deny the jumpseat to a pilot no matter who he/she works for. come on guys we all want the same thing....a job, decent pay, and an eventual seat with a major. grow up!

 

[Superpilot92]

Its not about being underbid. None of us know what the actual bid came out to be. From what i understand, XJETs bid was lower than CHQ but CAL said no thanks. It didnt matter to CAL what our bid was they just want to bring someone else in to make us fight back and forth. There is only one way to stop this crap and it is to start working together to join as a solid labor group under one contract as Regional Pilots. That is the only way to stop the bs of playing ourselves against each other. Until then it will continue and keep wages low.

 

[777_Jackpot]

Its not about being underbid. None of us know what the actual bid came out to be. From what i understand, XJETs bid was lower than CHQ but CAL said no thanks. It didnt matter to CAL what our bid was they just want to bring someone else in to make us fight back and forth. There is only one way to stop this crap and it is to start working together to join as a solid labor group under one contract as Regional Pilots. That is the only way to stop the bs of playing ourselves against each other. Until then it will continue and keep wages low.

Maybe as of present, thats all they think you work is worth.

 

[Turtlesfly]

i'd be very disappointed if i have chosen to work with people that are excited about the misfortune of fellow pilots. i hope we can all look past the petty differences between pilots and extend our professional curtesy and class to all that deserve it.

I'm with you . . .

. . . unfortunately I don't think most people are like that -- I was leaving the employee parking lot the other day and one of our own pilots zoomed past me 'cause I must be going so slow - and then swerved in front of me so that we could both sit at the next red light for like 2 minutes behind each other.

Point being, the average pilot will steal from anybody to get anything, right?

 

[777_Jackpot]

Its not about being underbid. None of us know what the actual bid came out to be. From what i understand, XJETs bid was lower than CHQ but CAL said no thanks. It didnt matter to CAL what our bid was they just want to bring someone else in to make us fight back and forth. There is only one way to stop this crap and it is to start working together to join as a solid labor group under one contract as Regional Pilots. That is the only way to stop the bs of playing ourselves against each other. Until then it will continue and keep wages low.

Maybe as of present, thats all they think your work is worth.

 

[Apache 5]

I hope we park all 69 in EWR and IAH while CHQ and CAL search for airplanes. Who cares if they dont fly, just park them.

 

[BlueCanoe]

I hope we park all 69 in EWR and IAH while CHQ and CAL search for airplanes. Who cares if they dont fly, just park them.

Man, that's genius!!! With Embraer not producing any, I'll bet we'd have a hard time getting in line for them....especially since we're such bad customers...

 

[Skychief]

No. what I said was very literal in meaning. I, with every definition of sincerety, hope they (CHQ), and others alike, keep under cutting other carriers. CHQ is in a great position. By NOT having a contract that has hamstrung the company to wages that the industry cannot support (unlike most all other carriers), they can easily under bid, sustain growth and rise to greater levels of profitabilty by offering the same product. Want more flying, more pay? Supply a better, higher quality product... or do it cheaper. Simple as that!

I really don't know how to respond to this...I'm not being nasty, I just don't know how to respond....are you saying that you hope the uncertainty that lies with all carriers in this industry continues? I think it is safe to say that at some point in time, CHQ will be on the short end of the stick....who will be taking the flying then....Mesa? TSA? ASA? Skywest? XJT? This is a horrible reality in our industry and I really don't see any end to it. Lets face it, the larger / bigger CHQ gets, the higher their cost will likely be...the employees get a bit more leverage and demand higher wages and poof, before you know it, someone else who has taken paycuts or settled for a lesser contract to keep flying that was theirs now takes some CHQ flying because they can do it cheaper....it is a viscious cycle and it is not good for any of us. Please don't get defensive about this issue...I am not pointing the finger at CHQ....this is just the reality of the world in which we work. As I've stated before, this all could have been avoided with brand scope, but that ship has long since sailed!

Also, I'm not sure I agree with your argument that the reason XJT lost the flying is because our cost are higher.....I have no hard information, but I do feel CAL would have chosen to withdrawl those 69 airplanes even if XJT was the lowest bidder (only CAL knows who that was). The reason for this is just plain good business on CAL's part....don't put all of your eggs in one basket!

Again, I'm not trying to throw rocks at CHQ or anyone else...just trying to have a good discussion.

Skychief

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/major-national-lcc/expressjet-2005030455.htm

 

[sleeves]

Flying 69 aircraft as the new COEX will be outstanding! I love this company. Here come the upgrades!

-EMB SKILLZ

Soon to be EMB CAPT SKILLZ

What comes around goes around.