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Ce750 Job, Type Rating Required

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CitationXDriver

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 12, 2005
Posts
113
I have the hookup for a Citation X job in the Chicago area. This is primarily 135 flying with some occasional 91 work. This is a Captain position and possibly Chief Pilot of a 2 aircraft flight Department. Type rating is required, current even better. I have lots of more info, PM me with serious questions and resume and I will forward it to the powers that be.
 
he doesn't have to be typed to fly the plane...and it's not listed under the ratings section...
 
Call me old fashioned, but a 1200hr pilot flying as a crewmember on a CE750, (with or without a type rating) scares me.
 
SCT said:
Call me old fashioned, but a 1200hr pilot flying as a crewmember on a CE750, (with or without a type rating) scares me.
Old Fashion. With the right training, a 1200 hour pilot flying in a complex jet environment is not only doable, but can only be safe. How many hours you think those F16 drivers have? If you want to get humbled, go up against a 1200, 1300, 1400 hour pilot in a sim and try to fly an ILS better than he does. That's their bread and butter and they do that all day long. You'll get schooled son. The regionals, and some nationals, take low time guys, train them right, then stick them in the right seat. I think initially it is more of a learning environment than a working environment, but 1 or 2 huundred hours and things tend to smooth out. They fly all day long in aircraft more sophiscated than a C750, several legs a day, with 50+ peopel behind them, in and out of crap WX. The learning curve for them is high, and most tend to rise up and meet the challenge. If they are doing that, I'd certainly say they are qualified to fly anything we are. I would not suggest turning loose a 1200 hour pilot trained in a civilian environment as a PIC in such an aircraft, but have him/her supervised by a qualified PIC is just fine. I'm sure we have all flown with higher time so called PICs that don't have any idea what they are doing or have any business flying in the PIC capacity. It's all about the decision making skills of a crew, not the total time, within reason of course. 1200 hours is not a lot of time, but to shut the door on a good stick and trainable pilot does not make much sense to me.
 
HawkerF/O said:
Old Fashion. With the right training, a 1200 hour pilot flying in a complex jet environment is not only doable, but can only be safe. How many hours you think those F16 drivers have? If you want to get humbled, go up against a 1200, 1300, 1400 hour pilot in a sim and try to fly an ILS better than he does. That's their bread and butter and they do that all day long. You'll get schooled son. The regionals, and some nationals, take low time guys, train them right, then stick them in the right seat. I think initially it is more of a learning environment than a working environment, but 1 or 2 huundred hours and things tend to smooth out. They fly all day long in aircraft more sophiscated than a C750, several legs a day, with 50+ peopel behind them, in and out of crap WX. The learning curve for them is high, and most tend to rise up and meet the challenge. If they are doing that, I'd certainly say they are qualified to fly anything we are. I would not suggest turning loose a 1200 hour pilot trained in a civilian environment as a PIC in such an aircraft, but have him/her supervised by a qualified PIC is just fine. I'm sure we have all flown with higher time so called PICs that don't have any idea what they are doing or have any business flying in the PIC capacity. It's all about the decision making skills of a crew, not the total time, within reason of course. 1200 hours is not a lot of time, but to shut the door on a good stick and trainable pilot does not make much sense to me.

Your point is taken and I even agree with you to some extent! (Let the flaming begin). The question I have is what insurance company would insure a pilot with the experience listed?
 
I'm not saying your wrong but Pan Am flight school can not be compared to military flight training.
 
xrated said:
Your point is taken and I even agree with you to some extent! (Let the flaming begin). The question I have is what insurance company would insure a pilot with the experience listed?
More than you think. Over the past few years, I have learned quite a bit about the aviation insurance industry. If someone tells you they can't hire you becasue os insurance, 1 of 2 things is happening.
1) They are lying and just use that excuse to send you on your way
2) They are ineffective leaders allowing insurance brokers to run their departments.
I'll explain: Lots of times, the CP will say to the broker I got this guy I want to hire. Can I get him insured? That is the 1st mistake. Don't ask, tell. Call the broker and say I hired this guy and I need insured before he leaves for school. At that point the broker should call the underwriter and go to work. If the broker has a good relationship with the underwriter, no problem. The request must be reasonable though. Sending a 1200 hour guy to FSI or Siumflite for an initial and a type to fly on the C750 as a co pilot is reasonable. To send him down there and then want him to be a PIC is not reasonable. Too many pilots allow the broker to say yes or no. It's not up to the broker to staff your department. The broker works for the flight department, so if the broker flat out says no, especially without asking the underwriter, that broker should be fired and you should find a broker that will work for you. Tessa over at NationAir is a great example of a loser broker. When I was 1st starting out and didn't know a thing about insurance, my boss told me I could go to school on our 2nd jet type if I got the insurance to sign off on it. I called Tessa and after 5 days of calling her and calling her, she finally took my call and shot me down right there on the spot, thus costing me a type rating and holding up my career progression. She was just being lazy and thought she knew all the answers. When I got a friend in the insurance business and he told me I should have had no problem getting insured, I revisited the issue, and found out how this insurance thing works. Needless to say, Tessa got her lazy A#S fired, and my friend got our business. Tessa was rude and disrespectful because I was not the CP or the aircraft owner. Well, I'll be a CP one day, and NationAir will never have any of my business. I tell this story becasue it's crucial to know that the underwriter is who gives the OK, not the broker. My friend I spoke of has gotten a CFI approved for P135 on a Challenger and all he had to do was go to a recurrent, though he never went to an initial!!! It's sick, I know, but my friend is extremely sucessful becasue he does what the CP asks him to do. He does not go around trying to tell the CP how to run his department or who he can and cannot hire. He picks up the phone, calls the underwriter and explains the situation instead of just faxing over a pilot history form and waiting for a yes or a no. Not to mention, he saves his clients significant percentages on their renewals becasue he actually takes time to talk to the clients and find out their specific needs. He has an excellent relationship with the underwriters becasue he realizes how critical that relationship is to his business. If more brokers worked hard like that, he be a dime a dozen. Instead, he is flourshing and a rarity in the business, because of the approach he takes to his customer's needs. Read this post and it will explain more. http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=64295
Edit: I got a lot of PMs wanting this guys contact info, so if anyone else wants to contact him about becoming their broker, PM me and I will put you in touch with him. Bottom Line, don't take a "No" from somebody that does not have the authority to give you a "Yes".
 
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God Bless Mark and his family.


This subject has been debated to death on this board, but here I go.

I think the whole subject comes down to money. The company, the boss, the board, the CEO or chief pilot not wanting or willing to pay a qualified and experienced pilot to fill a position for what ever reason.

Then there is an endless stream of young energetic pilots willing to fill that seat even though their experience level on average does not meet the
demands of the airplane.

First off, I'm talking "averages". Everyone can point out an example of a 500 hr wiz kid keeping the right seat of a G5 warm. And I also know of a few 8,000 hr pilots that were terrible pilots (either stick and rudder or automation or both).
Second, I'm talking average GA trained pilots not zero hr to F16 trained military pilots.
Third, and this point can be debated but on average, in the corporate world at the GV, Challenger, X, etc level most F500 companies have co-captians flying as a crew. I'm glad I work for a company and CEO where safety is number 1 over saving money.

Now, I agree that every young budding prof. pilot needs to get a "break" in their career. (I know I did.) But I still say that a 1200 pilot flying around in a large corporate a/c is not the best qualified person for the job (kind of like President Bush's Supreme Court nominee. And I'm even a Bush fan.) Maybe I was a below average 1000hr pilot but I know I wasn't ready for that type of a position at the point in my career.

Just my opinion,
SCT

PS- And while the X is not an SR71, it is not your average straight wing Cessna.
 

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