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Ce750 Job, Type Rating Required

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The X is probably one of the scariest handling planes at slow speeds i've ever flown.

The last 1000 feet in that plane make you work harder than any other plane out there.

It's not comforting to roll the ailerons to the stops and it's still going the wrong way.
 
Diesel said:
The X is probably one of the scariest handling planes at slow speeds i've ever flown.

The last 1000 feet in that plane make you work harder than any other plane out there.

It's not comforting to roll the ailerons to the stops and it's still going the wrong way.

OK, here's my question to Diesel and Hawk,

If you have two excellent candidates for a job in a X and they are both great pilots, one has 15,000 hours and one has 1,200 hours, which would you want flying your kids?

Heck, if you had a ford truck that needed a new transmission and there were two mechanics, one had replaced a transmission on a ford 1,000 times and one had done it 50 times, which one would you choose?

All other things being equal, which would you pick?

I can go on, but you'd get bored.

Ace
 
Diesel,

i agree totally. I had tons of Citation time and a few types when i received my 750 type, but I was humbled when i first started to fly the X. The airplane definitly demands your attention on landings. I've had to clean my shorts a few times with strong gusty crosswinds on slippery runways.

It's still fun to fly. I just wish the seats were more comfortable!
 
Ace-of-the-Base said:
OK, here's my question to Diesel and Hawk,

If you have two excellent candidates for a job in a X and they are both great pilots, one has 15,000 hours and one has 1,200 hours, which would you want flying your kids?

Heck, if you had a ford truck that needed a new transmission and there were two mechanics, one had replaced a transmission on a ford 1,000 times and one had done it 50 times, which one would you choose?

All other things being equal, which would you pick?

I can go on, but you'd get bored.

Ace

Completely depends on where the hours were obtained, and what their experience is. Could be 15,000 of the same hour.
 
Ace-of-the-Base said:
OK, here's my question to Diesel and Hawk,

If you have two excellent candidates for a job in a X and they are both great pilots, one has 15,000 hours and one has 1,200 hours, which would you want flying your kids?

Heck, if you had a ford truck that needed a new transmission and there were two mechanics, one had replaced a transmission on a ford 1,000 times and one had done it 50 times, which one would you choose?

All other things being equal, which would you pick?

I can go on, but you'd get bored.

Ace
It honestly depends. If the 15K hour guy had been flying a B1900 for most of that time and the 1200 hour guy got into the CRJ at 300 hours with some East Coast or Midwest commuter swapping legs and that is all he has been flying since, I would probably hire the 1200 hour guy. I would need to get them both in for an interview and see if the egos and arrogance are in check. Either one of them is going to have to be retrained, but if one already knows everything, then he does not need the job you spoke of as it's a learning environment.
I honestly do not feel as though there would be much difference in a guy that has changed a tranny 50 or 1000 times. I cahnge the own oil in my car, and the 1st couple of times I did it, I remember having the book out checking replacement quanities, torque settings, etc. When I do it now, it's all natural and I can do it with my eyes closed. Maybe that is not the smartest thing to do, but I guess it is all just a matter of opinion. For me, I guess I have no problem with cutting a guy a break, as good people tend not to forget that, and loyality trumps when push comes to shove. In aviation, if you can send someone to school and they do well, I have no problem with them flying my family, as long as I don't have to teach them to fly. With a 1200 hours guy, I'd put him in the right seat and he'll be swinging that gear for 100 to 150 hours. During that time, any empty legs he would get from the right seat as well, but he'd actually get to fly. After that, he fly from the right seat for 10-20 legs with Pax on board. Once those 10-20 legs are complete, I'd give him a few empty legs with no pax on board in the left seat in order to get use to the yoke to tiller and tiller to yoke transition. Once he is good there, then it's business as usual, swapping seats and legs. The trouble with some pilots, young and old, low time and high time, they think they are ready for more than they are getting. A pilot new to jets needs to sit in that right seat for a little while and just absorb what he sees. I was amazed at how much I learned about flying by not flying. Some guys get pissed off cause they are in the right seat, and if some 1200 hour guy I jsut hired so much as peeps about his current roll, then he needs a "Come to Jesus" meeting.
 
HawkerF/O said:
Some guys get pissed off cause they are in the right seat, and if some 1200 hour guy I jsut hired so much as peeps about his current roll, then he needs a "Come to Jesus" meeting.

Good point.
 
English said:
Good point.
Thank you, Sir! Been there myself, and I always appreciated the fact that I was lucky enough to have a job in the 1st place. I also realized I was learning and not just sitting there. The guy I was flying with was a real stick hog and an A##hole, but I learned alot over there, and everytime he made a mistake, I was quick to catch it, and oh what fun it was to bring it to his attention. That right seat will make you sharp, I just don't think it should be a permanent place for a fella to be.
 
I just quoted your statement so a friend of mine (who needs to read it) reads it.
 
HawkerF/O said:
It honestly depends. If the 15K hour guy had been flying a B1900 for most of that time and the 1200 hour guy got into the CRJ at 300 hours with some East Coast or Midwest commuter swapping legs and that is all he has been flying since, I would probably hire the 1200 hour guy. I would need to get them both in for an interview and see if the egos and arrogance are in check. Either one of them is going to have to be retrained, but if one already knows everything, then he does not need the job you spoke of as it's a learning environment.
I honestly do not feel as though there would be much difference in a guy that has changed a tranny 50 or 1000 times. I cahnge the own oil in my car, and the 1st couple of times I did it, I remember having the book out checking replacement quanities, torque settings, etc. When I do it now, it's all natural and I can do it with my eyes closed. Maybe that is not the smartest thing to do, but I guess it is all just a matter of opinion. For me, I guess I have no problem with cutting a guy a break, as good people tend not to forget that, and loyality trumps when push comes to shove. In aviation, if you can send someone to school and they do well, I have no problem with them flying my family, as long as I don't have to teach them to fly. With a 1200 hours guy, I'd put him in the right seat and he'll be swinging that gear for 100 to 150 hours. During that time, any empty legs he would get from the right seat as well, but he'd actually get to fly. After that, he fly from the right seat for 10-20 legs with Pax on board. Once those 10-20 legs are complete, I'd give him a few empty legs with no pax on board in the left seat in order to get use to the yoke to tiller and tiller to yoke transition. Once he is good there, then it's business as usual, swapping seats and legs. The trouble with some pilots, young and old, low time and high time, they think they are ready for more than they are getting. A pilot new to jets needs to sit in that right seat for a little while and just absorb what he sees. I was amazed at how much I learned about flying by not flying. Some guys get pissed off cause they are in the right seat, and if some 1200 hour guy I jsut hired so much as peeps about his current roll, then he needs a "Come to Jesus" meeting.

I agree with most everything you said. The only point you are not making is that there is still alot to be said for experience. I've run into a 100 mechanics and there are ones who can set up an engine so it has no vibes and runs perfectly the first time. Some may be newer than others, but they all have a ton of experience. Yes, you can have a 10,000 hour pilot who is worse than a 1,200 hour pilot, that isn't my point. My point is that I'd rather be in the back with a 10,000 hour GREAT pilot than a great 1,200 pilot. I'm sure you are a better pilot today than you were yesterday, aren't you?

As for giving a good guy (or gal, English) a break, amen! Done it and it feels darn good to give something back.

Ace

Ps. I hope your comment about changing the oil without the 'book' doesn't translate to your checklist use in an airplane.
 
Ace-of-the-Base said:
I agree with most everything you said. The only point you are not making is that there is still alot to be said for experience. I've run into a 100 mechanics and there are ones who can set up an engine so it has no vibes and runs perfectly the first time. Some may be newer than others, but they all have a ton of experience. Yes, you can have a 10,000 hour pilot who is worse than a 1,200 hour pilot, that isn't my point. My point is that I'd rather be in the back with a 10,000 hour GREAT pilot than a great 1,200 pilot. I'm sure you are a better pilot today than you were yesterday, aren't you?
Well, course. I'd like to think that we are all. FOr me, I know I don't know everything, and I look at every flight as a learning tool. We can all be better. I think when the learning stops, the danger begins. As for experience, you and I share similiar thoughts. I believe experience breed judgement. Not all the time though. Some of those 10K hour guys do some stupid things on a regular basis. I think Ego has a lot to do with that, whether they think they are invincable or whether they are too foolish to admit when they need help or have not made the best decision. That is why I feel putting a good stick lower time guy with an experienced Capt that is understand and willing to share and pass along some knowledge is one of the best situations you can find. You have a guy with some experience asking questions and learning while the other guy is answering those questions and thinking. It'll keep them both sharp and serve as an ongoing systems review. As for the checklist, no, it's not the same to me as the oil change. Doing an oil change right wont kill you, but missing checklist items could be potentially fatal, so I treat it accordingly. Most of the time, a missed item on the check list leads to embarrasment by an observant aviator, but it could be worse. I'm enjoying this back and forth with you.
 

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