Cathay Career progression

[Mayday911]

Any info on SO quality of life?

Aside from the air quality in Hong Kong, the SO QOL is very good. Little responsibility at work but a sim every other month to maintain "P2X" rating. Good amount of days off to spend traveling around the system or party in Wan Chai.

However, some people seem to think that current SOs will get the shaft due to the hiring of Direct Entry FOs on the bases. The problem is that for every FO hired to the base, there is one less position for a current and senior pilot to have....then again CX doesn't care much about seniority, just ask me and every other current freighter FO who are working 8-10 day trips through ANC and India while DEFOs in YYZ (777), YVR (340), and LAX (777) are making more money than us and will enjoy 4-5 day trips. But I am not bitter. Add to that, who the hell knows what, or where the Dragon Air pilots will be inserted to the list. They are apparently offering Dragon pilots bottom of the list right now to join CX due to the freighter integration, but there is talk of a seniority merge with all Dragon pilots being inserted at the date of acquisition (Sept 2006). Good for those of us here prior to that but bad for everyone who has joined since. This is nothing official yet of course.......

Mayday

 

[It will roll]

Random question but what do SO's log for flight time? Is it SIC, or not loggable? Any SIC type ratings during training? Reason for this question, if one went there and decided it wasn't for him/her, how would all the flight time/experience be accounted for on a resume. Also, any word on Pay for SO's??

Last question. If you have your app in for SO, then after 6 mo-1 year upgrade to CA at your current job, can you switch your app to DEFO without loosing your spot in the pile, or would that push back your hopefull "call?"

Thanks in advance!

 

[OzBushWhacker]

Have a second interview coming up with them. Am highly concerned about the lack of progression for S/O's re: DEFO recruitment.

Anybody know if S/O's can hop on over to be an F/O on the freighter side now that there is integration? I like the amount of hulls on order but this jumping over of S/O's for DEFO's is not a promising sign.

Pity its my only potential offer right now....

 

[Mayday911]

Not 100% but here goes.....

You can bid for a freighter FO opening from the SO position after completing 1 full MOD (continuing training/checking program for SOs). A MOD is, I believe, 1 year after line check....so approx. 1 year and 4 months with the company. Their reasoning behind this is that they traditionally hire lower experienced pilots to the SO position (not always true) and they want to get a good "look" at your training file prior to giving you a window seat.

All this said they can what ever they feel like. If they are short freighter FOs and you bid it right away they may take you up on it.

One seniority list though. SOs start their seniority when they turn up at Adelaide.

FO

 

[Webslinger]

Hey Mayday,
What is the typical upgrade time for a U.S. Freighter FO, and once you upgrade, can you hold a line or position stateside? Or do all Freighter Capt's have to do a HK tour of a year? Just curious?

 

[Mayday911]

To get a specific upgrade window is tough because Cathay does not publish a bid award. They put out a memo and you put your request in via email to the admin lady that is in charge of the numbers. Right now guys seem to be getting assessed (pre command assessment interview) right after 2 years if they want to give it a go. I have been with CX for a little over 1 1/2 years and a guy 2 weeks senior to me has already started his command course.
Almost all freighter positions are outside HK, there are a few guys in HKG that are freighter only pilots but they do not get an expat package as they are employed on "local terms". Almost all guys upgrading are on a base outside HKG.

Line v. Reserve....the company can, by that flimsy contract we all signed, sit pilots on 1 1/2 hour reserve callout, but they have yet to do it to me or anyone else that I know of that is based outside HKG. I do sometimes get a 4 hour reserve block when in HKG. You all get your line of flying handed to you on the 15th of every month and that may include some "A" days. That means you are available and if called they have to give you a minimum of 10 hours to report for duty.

 

[druglord]

yes you can switch application for SO to FO, just ask them. I did and they said 'yes'. Also heard of a guy that was told he was now going to be hired as FO though his 2nd interview was SO interview

 

[Cpt. Underpants]

Roll. in answer to your question, S/O rating is the "P2X" rating, not recognised by the FAA as a rating as it involves no base training (bounces) and minimal line training - the S/O is a cruise relief pilot only, no handling of the aircraft in any state other than cruise. As such, it is not "loggable" time other than credit towards a licence upgrade - like our cadets need to go from COM to ATPL etc. In a nutshell, worthless rating, worthless time (for an S/O).

Druglord, the "switch" from S/O to F/O for some candidates is because CX are desperate to fill North American freighter slots. Their ability to attract and retain many Americans is poor, as many see the QOL here in HKG as sub-standard. The novelty for many, wears off after a year or two, especially with that valuable B744 type rating...(I'm talking F/O here, of course).

 

[Dieterly]

Remember, FAA doesn't require you to be "rated" on an aircraft to be able to log the time. I think it's safe to say that the majority of US, Part 121 FO's do not have a typerating on the A/C they are flying.

 

[Cpt. Underpants]

CX policy states that "half the time physically at the controls may be logged towards a licence upgrade".

As the s/o typically spends somewhat less than half the flight time on duty, I interpret that to mean my s/o's are being credited one in four on flight time, or about 4 hours credit AS CRUISE RELIEF, not PIC, RPIC or P1US on a typical LAX-HKG.

IMHO to claim it as anything else to the FAA or potential employer is dishonest and fraudulent.

RPIC = Relief Pilot In Charge (A CX thing)
P1US = PF Under Supervision (A HKCAD thing)