Captain Mike Best has resigned as President of the NPA. WHAT!!!

[birdman1]

This is bad news for the pilots of AirTran Airways, but good news for Mrs. Kolski.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Depends. When is your ALPA vote??

 

[BSkin]

Depends. When is your ALPA vote??

next week

 

[Colonel Savage]

If AAI pilots are getting ready to decertify NPA, why is this bad news?

 

[scarlet]

Well the pilots here are never happy with ANYONE or ANYTHING. There are about 100-200 blowhards here that just complain all the time. I am sure they do the same at home !!

Now they want ALPA. Yeah look at Comair's and ASA's MEC just imposed money to be given into funds without the pilots agreeing to. You will pay this and no vote!!!

I would rather us fight in house then with national ALPA.

13,000 pilots on one side of airport or
1600 pilots on C and D....

Who do you think they will take care of?

If you want insurance=look up harvery watt .com

Are the blowhards going to run? Lets see what you guys can do?

 

[Lear70]

*yawn*

Same old scare tactics, Scarlet.

The pilots keep trying to put someone in office who will take a HARDLINE stance, then that person starts playing the political game.

I don't know why it's so difficult to comprehend:

NO side letters
NO givebacks
NO concessions
NO favors
NO waivers

Until there is a new T.A. on the table with substantial increases in pay and QOL and ALL the outstanding grievances are resolved.

Period. It's what the pilots want, not just a few "blowhards", as evidenced by the recalls, who wins the elections, etc. They just have to learn to keep up the hard-line stance AFTER they make it into office.

Incidentally, Scarlet, evidently you're still too new to union work to understand, but it's normally about 15-20% of the pilot group who are EVER active at ANY airline. The other 80-85% just do their job and go home, and about half of those ever even bother to vote. This pilot group is pretty par for the course in that regard.

 

[Colonel Savage]

Who is Mrs Kolski?

 

[dugan jones]

Who is Mrs Kolski?

Mr. Kolski's wife

 

[FIREMAN]

Who is Mrs Kolski?

The anti-Christ

 

[Colonel Savage]

Mr. Kolski's wife

And why would she be pleased with Captain Best's resignation as NPA President?

 

[birdman1]

Who is Mrs Kolski?

Your mom!!! No seriously, he's/she’s your mom.

 

[maxblast72]

Well the pilots here are never happy with ANYONE or ANYTHING. There are about 100-200 blowhards here that just complain all the time. I am sure they do the same at home !!

Now they want ALPA. Yeah look at Comair's and ASA's MEC just imposed money to be given into funds without the pilots agreeing to. You will pay this and no vote!!!

I would rather us fight in house then with national ALPA.

13,000 pilots on one side of airport or
1600 pilots on C and D....

Who do you think they will take care of?

If you want insurance=look up harvery watt .com

Are the blowhards going to run? Lets see what you guys can do?

My paychecks are still going to come from Airtran after the ALPA merger. ALPA really has no say on which Atlanta hubbed airline will do better economically. Bob Fornaro and Richard Anderson will determine the path each airline takes financially. ALPA will just help us negotiate a contract that is fair to both the pilots and the company.

The good news is Jet A is still south of $1.50/gallon and total RASM guidance (including the new bag fees, etc) is flat to down 1% which means Airtran is going to have a very good first quarter and probably 2009. ALPA is not going to change that.

There might be some legit arguments against ALPA, but the they are going to take care of Delta and forget Airtran isn't one of them. If Airtran pilots don't get a new improved contract, that means a lower cost structure at Airtran for Delta to compete against. Delta pilots realize this and want us to get a new better contract.

 

[scarlet]

don't know why it's so difficult to comprehend:

Lear
NO side letters- ALPA has approved many in the past
NO givebacks-Ask the Midwest Alpa pilots?
NO concessions-yeah look at the last 10 years with alpa carriers
NO favors-ASK DAL/CAL/ASA/Comair/Midwest all alpa
NO waivers-DAL MEC just approved more 76 seaters..pilots are real happy about that! Ask some.

Yeah I guess almost 14 years in the airline industry, I have not been around to much union work before. ??

 

[Lowrider717]

If Airtran pilots don't get a new improved contract, that means a lower cost structure at Airtran for Delta to compete against. Delta pilots realize this and want us to get a new better contract.

So we should take a pay cut to remain competitive against DAL? I'm confused, what is it Delta pilots realize again?

 

[zman]

scarlet I think ALPA coming to Airtran is all but a gurantee. If your truely afraid of ALPA then why dont you volunteer to be in the union. That way if you dont see something you like you can blow the whistle. Push for the Memrat to be passed after ALPA gets voted in so nothing like the MEC deal at DAL can happen without the approval of the pilot group. Honestly I really do see where everyones point of view that comes out from the anti-ALPA group. Also I can honestly say that I would like to have individuals like you be involved in the process cause you would bring the devil's advocate to the table.

 

[Lear70]

don't know why it's so difficult to comprehend:

Lear
NO side letters- ALPA has approved many in the past
NO givebacks-Ask the Midwest Alpa pilots?
NO concessions-yeah look at the last 10 years with alpa carriers
NO favors-ASK DAL/CAL/ASA/Comair/Midwest all alpa
NO waivers-DAL MEC just approved more 76 seaters..pilots are real happy about that! Ask some.

Yeah I guess almost 14 years in the airline industry, I have not been around to much union work before. ??

I guess not. Because you're talking about all the OTHER carriers and not what the pilots of AIRTRAN want, which is what I'm talking about and the only thing you, and anyone else who seeks to understand this pilot group, should be thinking about.

Forget what everyone else is doing and getting, and start worrying about our own house. All those things I typed are what the MAJORITY of our pilots want. If they didn't, we'd have ratified T.A. 2 over a year and a half ago, would not have had multiple recalls, and would not be voting on ALPA this week.

It's not rocket science...

 

[Colonel Savage]

Your mom!!! No seriously, he's/she’s your mom.

She's yo momma, homie.

 

[maxblast72]

So we should take a pay cut to remain competitive against DAL? I'm confused, what is it Delta pilots realize again?

Delta pilots want Airtran pilots to get a new improved contract so Airtran's costs increase. The market will eventually work to close any large cost differences between two competing airlines. There are two ways to close the cost gap. Help support Airtran pilots in obtaining a fair contract which will increase Airtran's costs or reduce Delta's costs (like they did in their 18 month bankruptcy proceedings).

Which way do you think is more favorable to Delta pilots?

 

[Just thinking]

I would like to get some feed back from LINE PILOTS from other ALPA carriers and what are their thoughts about the support that they have received. I do not want to get the "sale pitch" from whatever MEC happens to be on the schedule. I do not want to hear how great ALPA will be from the kool-aid drinkers. I want a real person's perspective from pilots who do not want to get political and entrench themselves in quest for the holy grail in Herndon.
So far the feed back that I have received from Delta, United and other ALPA pilots flying the line is that a large portion of the MEC folks are looking for something to segue into a job with national or with management.

Any other LINE PILOTS care to share the positives and negatives of their MEC and ALPA national's representation?

Please.... legitimate issues without embellishment...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Here are a few facts.

ALPA (and the IATA) are the only organizations that have permanent standing observer status at ICAO.

ALPA is a member of the transportation trades department or ttd.org

ALPA is the most effective pilot lobby group on CapHill. ALPA recently testified before Congress addressing these issues, including Flt 1549 https://www.alpa.org/DesktopModules...iew.aspx?itemid=17935&ModuleId=15681&Tabid=73

https://www.alpa.org/DesktopModules...ew.aspx?itemid=17826&ModuleId=15831&Tabid=206

ALPA is a leader in IFALPA.org the International Federation of Air Line Pilots. ALPA's 1st VP is the Deputy President at IFALPA

ALPA is part of the Int'l Transport Workers Federation. http://www.itfglobal.org/civil-aviation/index.cfm

ALPA is the only pilot representation that has meet with senior WH staff including the Vice President.
​

Airtran pilots might ask, what does all this have to do with us, we are just a good ol' boy southern airline. All the laws that effect Airtran pilots are determined without Airtran pilot contribution or input. With forreign ownership and cabatoge over the next hill, there is nothing local about Airtran anymore.

The ALPA website is complete with information about what ALPA provides.

Most pilots want to know, What is my union or ALPA going to do for my wallet? Before your union can really do much for your wallet, it has to secure a professional foundation of respect and trust with industry.

Your dues with ALPA will be less form what I understand, but also know that some of your dues will go to 'professional' aspects such as safety and engineering, accident investigation and human factor studies.

Compare the NPA website with the ALPA website.

 

[Colonel Savage]

I would like to get some feed back from LINE PILOTS from other ALPA carriers and what are their thoughts about the support that they have received..Please.... legitimate issues without embellishment...

ALPA's track record regarding SCOPE protection is absolutly absymal, and that SCOPE is something that your pilot group is trying very hard to take a stand on. I feel that if ALPA becomes your bargining agent, there will be pressure from them for you to compromise your SCOPE provisions in order to further ALPA's agenda regarding regional pilot representation.

Regional Jet Insurgency is the key issue facing mainline pilots they battle extinction, and ALPA is paving the road for those who would like to replace you.

 

[twepilot]

take alook at the mailout we got in the mail the other day. With a few exceptions, the airlines that alpa represents suck. Sorry to be brutally honest, but thats just my opinion.

RV

 

[Max Powers]

ALPA's track record regarding SCOPE protection is absolutly absymal, and that SCOPE is something that your pilot group is trying very hard to take a stand on. I feel that if ALPA becomes your bargining agent, there will be pressure from them for you to compromise your SCOPE provisions in order to further ALPA's agenda regarding regional pilot representation.

Regional Jet Insurgency is the key issue facing mainline pilots they battle extinction, and ALPA is paving the road for those who would like to replace you.

Very true Scope is HUGE!!!!! Look at what our last TA was.....Hmmmmm was it a HUGE scope relaxation? Had TA2 or 1 passed we would've had the absolute worst scope protetion in the industry. Col. Savage pull your head out of your rear and look at the facts boy - NPA is even worse on scope protetion. We essentially gave away the farm on scope protection while in solid financial shape. Sad.

Why is always the tools that have no logic like Col. Twe or Scarlet that bash something they don't know?

 

[maxblast72]

Someone correct me if I am wrong, if we vote ALPA in, you are telling me ALPA gets to rewrite our scope clause to whatever ALPA national thinks it is? I thought Airtran's current scope clause stays in effect until we vote in a new contract that will include our future scope clause.

Airtran pilots are not stupid. We have seen what has gone on at Delta with 70 and 90 seat jets and at Midwest with Republic. The junior guys at Airtran are not going to throw away their carrier progression to mainline Captain rates (or replacement of the B717 with E-190 or CRJ900's which would affect the bottom 2/3's of the seniority list) by voting yes for a TA that has a weak scope clause or weak payrates for a 90-100 seat airplane.

 

[Eagle757shark]

Someone correct me if I am wrong, if we vote ALPA in, you are telling me ALPA gets to rewrite our scope clause to whatever ALPA national thinks it is? I thought Airtran's current scope clause stays in effect until we vote in a new contract that will include our future scope clause.

Airtran pilots are not stupid. We have seen what has gone on at Delta with 70 and 90 seat jets and at Midwest with Republic. The junior guys at Airtran are not going to throw away their carrier progression to mainline Captain rates (or replacement of the B717 with E-190 or CRJ900's which would affect the bottom 2/3's of the seniority list) by voting yes for a TA that has a weak scope clause or weak payrates for a 90-100 seat airplane.

HELL NO!

DAMN GUYS, Read the merger agreement. That is not how this damn thing works. The current contract stays ineffect period! ALPA will not write anything!

 

[twepilot]

this tool is a hammer MF'er.

RV

 

[eaglesview]

ALPA's track record regarding SCOPE protection is absolutly absymal, and that SCOPE is something that your pilot group is trying very hard to take a stand on. I feel that if ALPA becomes your bargining agent, there will be pressure from them for you to compromise your SCOPE provisions in order to further ALPA's agenda regarding regional pilot representation.

Regional Jet Insurgency is the key issue facing mainline pilots they battle extinction, and ALPA is paving the road for those who would like to replace you.

Absolutley correct. ALPA is the best thing that ever happened to the RJ flying companies. he pilots them selves have shot themselves in the foot as what was mainline flying is now out for the lowest bidder which in manycases is an ALPA carrier. National is a joke period.

 

[Colonel Savage]

Very true Scope is HUGE!!!!! Look at what our last TA was.....Hmmmmm was it a HUGE scope relaxation? Had TA2 or 1 passed we would've had the absolute worst scope protetion in the industry. Col. Savage pull your head out of your rear and look at the facts boy - NPA is even worse on scope protetion. We essentially gave away the farm on scope protection while in solid financial shape. Sad.

Why is always the tools that have no logic like Col. Twe or Scarlet that bash something they don't know?

Max, chill out. I was refering to the AirTran PILOTS, who voted down the TA with weak scope, thereby taking the STAND I was refering to. Nowhere did I attempt to characterize NPA's stand on SCOPE. That's like me saying you think ALPA's record on SCOPE is acceptable, and accusing you of being a tool, based on what you posted. I am anything but a tool, I am the anti-tool, that's why I'm trying to WARN you about ALPA and SCOPE.

Don't put words in my mouth. Read posts more carefully before responding. Learn to keep the emotions out of your arguments when discussing these hot issues on the boards and everywhere else. If you don't, it will cloud your thinking, and others will be able to take advantage of you. That goes for your whole pilot group, as you wage this war for your next contract. I'm on your side, Max, I'm not your enemy.

 

[zman]

Not all ALPA airlines are giving up scope. Take a look at CAL they are standing strong nothing larger then 50 seat jets. Their management has been beating on them to allow larger RJ's (not that an 86 seat is an RJ) but they dont bend. So not all ALPA carriers are giving in. Also its not like ALPA gave in that scope its the older generations that took the bait from management saying hey we wont give up your pension. Then they dumped it in court anyways. (aka United, USair, Delta).

 

[DonVerita]

A few points made by several people on here need to be responded to for clarification:

1. MaxBlast - Of course Delta would like to see AirTran get a much improved contract; and so would the Airtran pilots, with retro pay. This will help Delta and all Major airline pilot groups achieve a better contract. That's called, "Pattern Bargaining". Will costs go up because of it? Yes, but...they can be offset by management doing 3 things:

A. Cleaning up the operation dramatically. That's across the board. That will attract and retain the higher yielding passengers. Management's revenue software is pathetic. Stations are not held accountable for quality control. Procedures are in place that are 100% contradictory to common sense. Employees are treated with such lack of respect that turnover rates for non-pilot positions are absurdly high.

B. Improve the product...a lot...and then advertise it correctly. All coach seats (aka: "plywood platforms") need to be replaced with soft leather seats that are of good quality and not just from the lowest bidder. In-flight entertainment needs to be more than just XM Satellite Radio. All seats need to have video monitors and wi-fi.

C. Get rid of the insane management bonus structure.

2. Colonel Sal. - Regarding scope. If you saw the absolute scope giveaway that was in TA1 and TA2 it would have made you vomit on the spot. Luckily the majority of AirTran pilots read between the lines and voted down both TA's. That was NPA for you. ALPA could not do worse than them.

3. TWE Pilot - Yes, let's look at the airlines ALPA represents. Since AirTran is a Major airline, let's stick with that comparison. United, Delta, Northwest, Continental, Alaska, FedEx. Now let's look at who the other suitor represents; that would be Teamsters - Major airlines = None. They do however represent a ragtag fleet of bottom feeders parked on Miami's Corrosion Corner: Arrow Air, Kalitta, Gulfstream. So, for you to say that the list of airlines that ALPA represents generally "suck" would be an incorrect statement.