Captain Mike Best has resigned as President of the NPA. WHAT!!!

[Colonel Savage]

I would like to get some feed back from LINE PILOTS from other ALPA carriers and what are their thoughts about the support that they have received..Please.... legitimate issues without embellishment...

ALPA's track record regarding SCOPE protection is absolutly absymal, and that SCOPE is something that your pilot group is trying very hard to take a stand on. I feel that if ALPA becomes your bargining agent, there will be pressure from them for you to compromise your SCOPE provisions in order to further ALPA's agenda regarding regional pilot representation.

Regional Jet Insurgency is the key issue facing mainline pilots they battle extinction, and ALPA is paving the road for those who would like to replace you.

 

[twepilot]

take alook at the mailout we got in the mail the other day. With a few exceptions, the airlines that alpa represents suck. Sorry to be brutally honest, but thats just my opinion.

RV

 

[Max Powers]

ALPA's track record regarding SCOPE protection is absolutly absymal, and that SCOPE is something that your pilot group is trying very hard to take a stand on. I feel that if ALPA becomes your bargining agent, there will be pressure from them for you to compromise your SCOPE provisions in order to further ALPA's agenda regarding regional pilot representation.

Regional Jet Insurgency is the key issue facing mainline pilots they battle extinction, and ALPA is paving the road for those who would like to replace you.

Very true Scope is HUGE!!!!! Look at what our last TA was.....Hmmmmm was it a HUGE scope relaxation? Had TA2 or 1 passed we would've had the absolute worst scope protetion in the industry. Col. Savage pull your head out of your rear and look at the facts boy - NPA is even worse on scope protetion. We essentially gave away the farm on scope protection while in solid financial shape. Sad.

Why is always the tools that have no logic like Col. Twe or Scarlet that bash something they don't know?

 

[maxblast72]

Someone correct me if I am wrong, if we vote ALPA in, you are telling me ALPA gets to rewrite our scope clause to whatever ALPA national thinks it is? I thought Airtran's current scope clause stays in effect until we vote in a new contract that will include our future scope clause.

Airtran pilots are not stupid. We have seen what has gone on at Delta with 70 and 90 seat jets and at Midwest with Republic. The junior guys at Airtran are not going to throw away their carrier progression to mainline Captain rates (or replacement of the B717 with E-190 or CRJ900's which would affect the bottom 2/3's of the seniority list) by voting yes for a TA that has a weak scope clause or weak payrates for a 90-100 seat airplane.

 

[Eagle757shark]

Someone correct me if I am wrong, if we vote ALPA in, you are telling me ALPA gets to rewrite our scope clause to whatever ALPA national thinks it is? I thought Airtran's current scope clause stays in effect until we vote in a new contract that will include our future scope clause.

Airtran pilots are not stupid. We have seen what has gone on at Delta with 70 and 90 seat jets and at Midwest with Republic. The junior guys at Airtran are not going to throw away their carrier progression to mainline Captain rates (or replacement of the B717 with E-190 or CRJ900's which would affect the bottom 2/3's of the seniority list) by voting yes for a TA that has a weak scope clause or weak payrates for a 90-100 seat airplane.

HELL NO!

DAMN GUYS, Read the merger agreement. That is not how this damn thing works. The current contract stays ineffect period! ALPA will not write anything!

 

[twepilot]

this tool is a hammer MF'er.

RV

 

[eaglesview]

ALPA's track record regarding SCOPE protection is absolutly absymal, and that SCOPE is something that your pilot group is trying very hard to take a stand on. I feel that if ALPA becomes your bargining agent, there will be pressure from them for you to compromise your SCOPE provisions in order to further ALPA's agenda regarding regional pilot representation.

Regional Jet Insurgency is the key issue facing mainline pilots they battle extinction, and ALPA is paving the road for those who would like to replace you.

Absolutley correct. ALPA is the best thing that ever happened to the RJ flying companies. he pilots them selves have shot themselves in the foot as what was mainline flying is now out for the lowest bidder which in manycases is an ALPA carrier. National is a joke period.

 

[Colonel Savage]

Very true Scope is HUGE!!!!! Look at what our last TA was.....Hmmmmm was it a HUGE scope relaxation? Had TA2 or 1 passed we would've had the absolute worst scope protetion in the industry. Col. Savage pull your head out of your rear and look at the facts boy - NPA is even worse on scope protetion. We essentially gave away the farm on scope protection while in solid financial shape. Sad.

Why is always the tools that have no logic like Col. Twe or Scarlet that bash something they don't know?

Max, chill out. I was refering to the AirTran PILOTS, who voted down the TA with weak scope, thereby taking the STAND I was refering to. Nowhere did I attempt to characterize NPA's stand on SCOPE. That's like me saying you think ALPA's record on SCOPE is acceptable, and accusing you of being a tool, based on what you posted. I am anything but a tool, I am the anti-tool, that's why I'm trying to WARN you about ALPA and SCOPE.

Don't put words in my mouth. Read posts more carefully before responding. Learn to keep the emotions out of your arguments when discussing these hot issues on the boards and everywhere else. If you don't, it will cloud your thinking, and others will be able to take advantage of you. That goes for your whole pilot group, as you wage this war for your next contract. I'm on your side, Max, I'm not your enemy.

 

[zman]

Not all ALPA airlines are giving up scope. Take a look at CAL they are standing strong nothing larger then 50 seat jets. Their management has been beating on them to allow larger RJ's (not that an 86 seat is an RJ) but they dont bend. So not all ALPA carriers are giving in. Also its not like ALPA gave in that scope its the older generations that took the bait from management saying hey we wont give up your pension. Then they dumped it in court anyways. (aka United, USair, Delta).

 

[DonVerita]

A few points made by several people on here need to be responded to for clarification:

1. MaxBlast - Of course Delta would like to see AirTran get a much improved contract; and so would the Airtran pilots, with retro pay. This will help Delta and all Major airline pilot groups achieve a better contract. That's called, "Pattern Bargaining". Will costs go up because of it? Yes, but...they can be offset by management doing 3 things:

A. Cleaning up the operation dramatically. That's across the board. That will attract and retain the higher yielding passengers. Management's revenue software is pathetic. Stations are not held accountable for quality control. Procedures are in place that are 100% contradictory to common sense. Employees are treated with such lack of respect that turnover rates for non-pilot positions are absurdly high.

B. Improve the product...a lot...and then advertise it correctly. All coach seats (aka: "plywood platforms") need to be replaced with soft leather seats that are of good quality and not just from the lowest bidder. In-flight entertainment needs to be more than just XM Satellite Radio. All seats need to have video monitors and wi-fi.

C. Get rid of the insane management bonus structure.

2. Colonel Sal. - Regarding scope. If you saw the absolute scope giveaway that was in TA1 and TA2 it would have made you vomit on the spot. Luckily the majority of AirTran pilots read between the lines and voted down both TA's. That was NPA for you. ALPA could not do worse than them.

3. TWE Pilot - Yes, let's look at the airlines ALPA represents. Since AirTran is a Major airline, let's stick with that comparison. United, Delta, Northwest, Continental, Alaska, FedEx. Now let's look at who the other suitor represents; that would be Teamsters - Major airlines = None. They do however represent a ragtag fleet of bottom feeders parked on Miami's Corrosion Corner: Arrow Air, Kalitta, Gulfstream. So, for you to say that the list of airlines that ALPA represents generally "suck" would be an incorrect statement.

 

[PCL_128]

take alook at the mailout we got in the mail the other day. With a few exceptions, the airlines that alpa represents suck. Sorry to be brutally honest, but thats just my opinion.

RV

Yeah, it sure would suck to have those Delta payrates. I wouldn't know what to do if I could actually afford to pay my mortgage.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Yeah, it sure would suck to have those Delta payrates. I wouldn't know what to do if I could actually afford to pay my mortgage.

Didn't you hear? Obama is going to take care of your mortgage...

 

[Scope out RJ's]

take alook at the mailout we got in the mail the other day. With a few exceptions, the airlines that alpa represents suck. Sorry to be brutally honest, but thats just my opinion.

RV

And we all know that air tran is such cream of the crop.:laugh:

Didn't you hear? Obama is going to take care of your mortgage...

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[twepilot]

maybe you should live within your means and make responsible decisions that don't over extend yourself...OR you could rely on others to take care of your ass.

RV

 

[twepilot]

ortscheid..

 

[hairball1173]

Find the Happy Place

Find that happy place and check your email TWEPILOT.

 

[SkiFishFly]

We will continue our negotiations with ALPA assistance. It should be very clear to everyone involved in the process that the AT pilots are not even going to consider relaxing scope. (well there are a few of the older idiots who still don't get this one...)
Those scope relaxations at other ALPA carriers were agreed to by their pilots. ALPA did not force it upon them. They may have failed to advise of how bad the consequences would be but they did not force it on them.
Most of us are smart enough to see that the last thing we want is any scope relaxation.

Alaska is ALPA and it sounds like they have agreed to pay and work rules improvements. Hopefully we can build on this.

 

[maxblast72]

1. MaxBlast - Of course Delta would like to see AirTran get a much improved contract; and so would the Airtran pilots, with retro pay. This will help Delta and all Major airline pilot groups achieve a better contract. That's called, "Pattern Bargaining". Will costs go up because of it? Yes, but...they can be offset by management doing 3 things:

Some guys on here think that us Airtran pilots will get no resources or help from ALPA in obtaining a new fair (pilot cost increasing) contract from management (we all know Airtran will do well in 2009 - just listen to what Fornaro told Wall Street this morning). I think that reasoning is bogus as I had said before. The Airtran pilot group is not the only pilot group that will benefit from a better contract for Airtran pilots. That is how ALPA can represent both Airtran and Delta.

I just don't understand the logic that ALPA is going to help shut Airtran down so Delta will do better. What is secret information is ALPA going to provide to Delta to ensure the demise of Airtran?

 

[Lear70]

ortscheid..

Who?

I think Hairball is right. You really need to go find a happy place...

 

[Murphy]

Can we get our ALPA lanyards in orange? It would be a good match to our call sign.