Can anyone understand "problems" with NWA's seniority list?

[~~~^~~~]

General: Once they can bid Delta bases, we'll be crash pad buddies. Maybe they can tell us where the ones with good high speed internet connections and community beer are. I've never owned a rebel flag, but maybe a little reminder of the Confederacy would help us find the crash pad from the bus stop. The red Stars and Bars would be easy to spot against the backdrop of frozen tundra and rusty cars.

:beer:

 

[General Lee]

You mean the we over expanded in Europe furloughs.

Do you really think they would get rid of those flights entirely? They will reduce service, but not chop entire routes. Look at CAL, they have a lot more 757s to smaller European cities traffic wise with the US (we hit most of the big ones and a few smaller ones) than we do---like Belfast, Bristol, Birmingham, Hamburg, Cologne, etc. Those cities just don't have the US traffic to keep them full daily I would bet, especially in the Winter.

Hey, you would know this. How are the LaCrosse and Flint flights doing lately?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

General: Once they can bid Delta bases, we'll be crash pad buddies. Maybe they can tell us where the ones with good high speed internet connections and community beer are. I've never owned a rebel flag, but maybe a little reminder of the Confederacy would help us find the crash pad from the bus stop in the snow.

:beer:

I just don't think I will have to commute. I have enough seniority to stay in ATL I bet.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

But how can that be. DALPA OBVIOUSLY won every argument and the NWA case is sooooooo weak? What about all the growth opportunities for the NWA guys. Oh, that's right, DAL will be REDUCING capacity. (Damn, can't believe the NWA guys didn't fall for that)

All ribing aside, I would be prepared for a bit more than 1-2%. My $ is ratio top part, DOH middle, hybrid bottom, General Lee fired.

Me fired? For being Delta's biggest advocate? I heard RA wants to possibly make me information minister, ala Baghdad Bob. "No, I don't hear or see those Orange Barney 737s coming to ATL anytime soon...."

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[GogglesPisano]

Unless the Company breaks the flow down,

I didn't think the flow-down would be applicable if they furloughed next year due to the fact that no one from a feeder has "flowed up" yet.

 

[Superpilot92]

I didn't think the flow-down would be applicable if they furloughed next year due to the fact that no one from a feeder has "flowed up" yet.

Thats incorrect. ALL Compass positions can be "Flowed" back into and about 10ish positions at Mesaba. just under 400 total positions i believe. The kicker is it would be a significant move by mgmt to furlough because they will have to do it in seniority order and absorb the significant cost associated with all of the training events that would occur at all levels of both lists.

There are a number of factors that all point to No furloughs occurring. If further capacity cuts happen then we likely wont see any hiring next year and the increased staffing needs will be a wash. We'll see

 

[~~~^~~~]

Super: Management wants out of the flow through. Occam used to suggest management would want to bring Compass to mainline. I don't see that.

So far the GTF tests have been going well. The C Series should leapfrog anything in its competitive market.

 

[Fly4hire]

Thats incorrect. ALL Compass positions can be "Flowed" back into and about 10ish positions at Mesaba. just under 400 total positions i believe. The kicker is it would be a significant move by mgmt to furlough because they will have to do it in seniority order and absorb the significant cost associated with all of the training events that would occur at all levels of both lists.

Another interesting twist, IMO why you will not see 400 NWA pilots stapled is the following cost prohibitive provision in the JCBA which is now binding:

once the number of permitted 76-seat jets is established, it will not be reduced. Exception one: If a pilot on the seniority list with an employment date prior to September 1, 2001 is placed on furlough, the Company will convert all 76-seat jets for operation as 70-seat jets.

Now look at the DAL SLI proposal and see where a pre-9/11 hire falls on the list and how many furloughs it will take to trigger the ~750 seat capacity reduction in the 76 seater's. Then look at where that falls on the NWA proposed list.

Under NWA's proposal you'd have to furlough 631 before removing seat capacity from ~125 76 seater's.

Under DAL's proposal, it would on take 202.

So much for pinning y'all's hopes that anything other than your SLI proposal will be shot down by RA.

 

[Superpilot92]

Super: Management wants out of the flow through. Occam used to suggest management would want to bring Compass to mainline. I don't see that.

So far the GTF tests have been going well. The C Series should leapfrog anything in its competitive market.

or they could just throw the GTFs on the airbuses and we could get more of them.

Either way lets just make sure those aircraft are flown at mainline!!

 

[recallsomeday]

Actually I think that only 90% of the Compass list can be flowback. There are no "protected" numbers at Compass because no one has been offered flow up yet.

Thats incorrect. ALL Compass positions can be "Flowed" back into and about 10ish positions at Mesaba. just under 400 total positions i believe. The kicker is it would be a significant move by mgmt to furlough because they will have to do it in seniority order and absorb the significant cost associated with all of the training events that would occur at all levels of both lists.

There are a number of factors that all point to No furloughs occurring. If further capacity cuts happen then we likely wont see any hiring next year and the increased staffing needs will be a wash. We'll see

 

[Superpilot92]

Actually I think that only 90% of the Compass list can be flowback. There are no "protected" numbers at Compass because no one has been offered flow up yet.

Your above posts contradicts itself. Is that a trick?

its only 90% after the first flow through flows up is my understanding. Until then its 100%.

 

[General Lee]

Another interesting twist, IMO why you will not see 400 NWA pilots stapled is the following cost prohibitive provision in the JCBA which is now binding:



Now look at the DAL SLI proposal and see where a pre-9/11 hire falls on the list and how many furloughs it will take to trigger the ~750 seat capacity reduction in the 76 seater's. Then look at where that falls on the NWA proposed list.

Under NWA's proposal you'd have to furlough 631 before removing seat capacity from ~125 76 seater's.

Under DAL's proposal, it would on take 202.

So much for pinning y'all's hopes that anything other than your SLI proposal will be shot down by RA.

Putting your bottom 400 on the bottom would then be a good thing, which would prevent furloughs of more than 201. Sounds like SOUND furlough protection, eh? Yeah. The bottom 201 could go to Compass, and therefore every "Delta" pilot would have a flying job. Those bottom 201 could swing back and forth from Compass to Delta, and stay employed. You cracked the code.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Fly4hire]

Putting your bottom 400 on the bottom would then be a good thing, which would prevent furloughs of more than 201. Sounds like SOUND furlough protection, eh? Yeah. The bottom 201 could go to Compass, and therefore every "Delta" pilot would have a flying job. Those bottom 201 could swing back and forth from Compass to Delta, and stay employed. You cracked the code.


Bye Bye--General Lee

In your warped logic. Except it's about the corporation, not you or me. I can almost guarantee you DAL Inc. will not pull the cost prohibitive provision trigger to reject a SLI that gives *them* more flexibility to furlough.

 

[General Lee]

In your warped logic. Except it's about the corporation, not you or me. I can almost guarantee you DAL Inc. will not pull the cost prohibitive provision trigger to reject a SLI that gives *them* more flexibility to furlough.

Highly doubtful RA would reject our own SLI. (We did a lot of handshaking while being "pro-merger") Using my logic, less DL pilots will be furloughed, period. If you want more than 201 to be furloughed someday in the future, then sobeit. If they have Compass Capt slots awaiting them, then all the better. I hope nobody ever gets furloughed, although up to 300 of your pilots were to be furloughed in your stand alone plan. (I have the transcripts to prove that)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ACL65PILOT]

:bomb: Prediction:

List will be segmented into 2 portions - pre and post 9/11 hires. Post 9/11 will be DOH, no bump no flush for everyone, pre 9/11 hires straight ratio

This would work out the best for the company. It allows them to furlough with no ill effect until TK.
I can see the unions not going along with this to protect all of the membership. Doing a ratio makes it a lot harder for the company to furlough.

If you DOH you are playing in to the company's hands.