Can anyone understand "problems" with NWA's seniority list?

[~~~^~~~]

deleted ... just not going to step in the poo. Its everywhere!

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Listening to most of you rds, I don't understand why we even bothered with negotiations much less arbitration. What a waste of time and money. In your minds it is so cut and dried, crystal clear that your generous offer was not only extremly fair but the too fair. But that is just the generosity of the dal pilot group to promote a team spirit with us. Sarcasm off: Imho, it will be negotiated/ruled somewhere in the middle. I will accept that(even though I don't think thats fair) without whining for the next 25+ years. G.lee,puffy,fd,acl,fins will you????

YOWKS. Shysh! Come on man, relax a tad. I don't think we ever said the 767ER was bigger than the A330, rather it should be "grouped" with it (probably the A332 version) since it does somewhat similar missions, although we do more 3 man and 4 man missions. Nobody on the stand said it was BIGGER. I think the top of the heap will be the 744, 777, 742 (most will go probably soon due to the world economy), and the 764. Then the next grouping will include the A330, 787(?), and the 767/757s (for pay reasons also). Then throw in the 737NGs, A320/319s, and MD88/90s for the next group, and the DC9 in the bottom group. I am pretty sure that is how we catagorized it for the arbitrators, in a ratio type proposal. Sounds reasonable to almost everyone I bet, and I think the arbitrators may use that tool thing to plug an play some of your guys for your near term attrition complaints. We'll see I guess. In the meantime, spend some extra time pre-flighting that DC9 in Minot---and CHILL OUT.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Listening to most of you rds, I don't understand why we even bothered with negotiations much less arbitration. What a waste of time and money. In your minds it is so cut and dried, crystal clear that your generous offer was not only extremly fair but the too fair. But that is just the generosity of the dal pilot group to promote a team spirit with us. Sarcasm off: Imho, it will be negotiated/ruled somewhere in the middle. I will accept that(even though I don't think thats fair) without whining for the next 25+ years. G.lee,puffy,fd,acl,fins will you????

You can't go in the middle when you start at 10 ( on a scale from 1 to 10) and we start at a 4.5. Your DOH position is the same one USAir East had. You guys for some reason haven't seen all of the things you got with this merger, and still have your pension. It really isn't worth arguing with you, since none of you can see it anyway. I won't whine after this SLI, and I can only hope that it is fair in the end. If it is a total hose job with DOH and a dynamic list, I think I will be hiring Thomas Magnum to look at 3 bank accounts, though.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

I think both sides want what is fair in the end. The problem is we disagree on what fair is. Hopefully the 3 wisemen will piss us all off, or better cajole our merger comms. to come up with an agreement themselves.

You can't go in the middle when you start at 10 ( on a scale from 1 to 10) and we start at a 4.5. Your DOH position is the same one USAir East had. You guys for some reason haven't seen all of the things you got with this merger, and still have your pension. It really isn't worth arguing with you, since none of you can see it anyway. I won't whine after this SLI, and I can only hope that it is fair in the end. If it is a total hose job with DOH and a dynamic list, I think I will be hiring Thomas Magnum to look at 3 bank accounts, though.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Fly4hire]

I think both sides want what is fair in the end. The problem is we disagree on what fair is. Hopefully the 3 wisemen will piss us all off, or better cajole our merger comms. to come up with an agreement themselves.

I don't think the DALPA merger Cmte ever wanted fair - I think they wanted to hit one out of the park, and be be carried on the shoulders of their cheering comrades for being victorious in preserving the DAL way of life of screwing merged companies to their lists advantage.

If they have convinced themselves they are being fair, it is in the form of how you "fairly" treat livestock, CMR, or other perceived lesser forms of life.

I think the arrogance of the DAL position will backfire, and they are going to be extremely disappointed in the result, however are counting on RA rejecting anything else other than their proposal as being too expensive - too bad their proposal is in fact the one that will cost DAL inc. far more.

When the arbitrated list is accepted and their entire strategy is blown, they will sue and sulk.

 

[General Lee]

I don't think the DALPA merger Cmte ever wanted fair - I think they wanted to hit one out of the park, and be be carried on the shoulders of their cheering comrades for being victorious in preserving the DAL way of life of screwing merged companies to their lists advantage.

If they have convinced themselves they are being fair, it is in the form of how you "fairly" treat livestock, CMR, or other perceived lesser forms of life.

I think the arrogance of the DAL position will backfire, and they are going to be extremely disappointed in the result, however are counting on RA rejecting anything else other than their proposal as being too expensive - too bad their proposal is in fact the one that will cost DAL inc. far more.

When the arbitrated list is accepted and their entire strategy is blown, they will sue and sulk.

You sound like a USAir East pilot.. You are the one with entitlement issues. You have not taken into account what you NWA pilots have already gotten from our merger, and what you can get in the future---like off of your old DC9s and into higher paying equipment that is more advanced. What again did we get from you guys again? A NRT hub? Anything else? Old planes? How is DTW doing as a city these days?

Your Dynamic list has never been done before, and attrition hasn't been used either. I bet Bloch may use the plug and play method though, but not to the extent that you are counting on. It will be a 7 to 5 ratio, with some modest plug and play to placate your loudest whiners. That'll be it. The arbitrators still have to follow the ALPA merger policies, with modest tweaking, which will happen.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DTW320]

What again did we get from you guys again?$3 Billion in cash, to start.... A NRT hub?Correct. Ask RA if he thinks that is a minor thing. Anything else? Yeah, quite a few....but you KNOW that.Old planes? 4.5 years older average fleet age than the DAL fleet. How old are those DC9-88's and 767's again? You got 32 A330's that are much newer than your 767's. Do you have amnesia?.. cause this has been coveredHow is DTW doing as a city these days?How's it doing as a strategically positioned hub? Again, ask RA what he thinks about DTW as a hub. No really.....he's very familiar with it, and it's greatest strengths have little to do with GM or Ford.

Also, if you're so sure about eh outcome of the SLI, why did both sides spend so much time and our money on it? They could have just asked you and saved everyone a lot of trouble.

 

[Fly4hire]

Also, if you're so sure about eh outcome of the SLI, why did both sides spend so much time and our money on it? They could have just asked you and saved everyone a lot of trouble.

Haven't you been listening? They have been telling the arbitrators what the MUST do, and what they CAN and CANNOT do. They speak as if the outcome has already been determined and can be no other way. <br><br>If for some reason they don't they are counting on RA rejecting the list and/or sue. <br><br> Too bad their proposal is the cost prohibitive one.

 

[NuGuy]

Haven't you been listening? They have been telling the arbitrators what the MUST do, and what they CAN and CANNOT do. They speak as if the outcome has already been determined and can be no other way. <br><br>If for some reason they don't they are counting on RA rejecting the list and/or sue. <br><br> Too bad their proposal is the cost prohibitive one.

Interesting concept....

So, the $64 (million) dollar question is which is more expensive: Administering the list, which NWA did for 20 years with minimum trouble, or face 5100+ lawsuits when a binding arbitration award is "rejected" for a nebulous reason?

I saw a lot of DAL guys giving a rash of sh!t to AAA guys...I wonder how their tune will change if the award doesn't go exactly their way.

Nu

 

[General Lee]

Haven't you been listening? They have been telling the arbitrators what the MUST do, and what they CAN and CANNOT do. They speak as if the outcome has already been determined and can be no other way. <br><br>If for some reason they don't they are counting on RA rejecting the list and/or sue. <br><br> Too bad their proposal is the cost prohibitive one.

So, I guess they could decide to make you and Dtw320 number 1 and number 2, right? Yeah, that's the ticket. They can do whatever they want..... Hello? We are both members of ALPA. We still have an Alpa merger policy. They don't have to go exactly that way, but that is the outline, and if they stray from it, they will have to explain a lot of things. No windfalls is a particular rule we have, and what you are asking for is a windfall. Same with USAir East, and look how that ended. We'll see, but your DOH request and the dynamic list for everyone at NWA is very unlikely. Look for 7 to 5, with some modest plug and play.


Bye Bye--General Lee