CAL/UAL .....again...and fearful

[dispatchguy]

Merging with United is the kiss of death. Nothing like putting a million pound anchor around your neck and taking the express lane to the bottom.

I was working at the UAL ORD B767 Pilot Crew Desk the day the aborted attempt at merging with USAir was announced in May of 2000.

The UAL stock price tanked by 20+ bucks a share that day and NEVER RECOVERED, not til they declared BK and the stock was worthless.

The USAir stock price climbed around 20 bucks or more that day.

The Street's opinion of the UA/US merger then was the kiss of death, and while one of the dance partners have changed, there is so much poisonous blood between UA Management and the rank and file UA employee, I cant see merging with UA to be any better this time...

Go it alone CAL, you can do it...

 

[RedRum]

I think any leadership changes at CAL would show a shift in the priorities of the Board of Directors.

If Gordon does go to CAL, you can look for merger speculation to run rampant. When Richard Anderson came to power at Delta, he was given marching orders to boost shareholder value in the company.

I have a lot of good friends at UAL. I fear that the sum of the parts is more than the whole. By this time next year things are going to be a whole lot clearer on the merger front. I believe UAL will be sold in pieces if ANYTHING happens. I just don't think they will go Chapter 7 as a whole. Maybe they will sell of different areas of the business before they do that.

Good luck to everyone involved. From someone who has been furloughed for 5 years, it is still better than having to start all over at a new carrier. I woudln't wish that on anyone; yes even an American pilot!

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Junior guys furloughed or about to be....whatever makes you feel better.

Nobody is thinking doom and gloom Chap 7.

These two guys run no risk of being furloughed since they are pretty senior, but I can assure you that what would make me feel better is that they are wrong

 

[whatitdoing?]

Imho, Ual has the best fleet mix, best core route structure and with the right mgmt , a world beater. A Cal or AA merger would give the east coast, chicago, houston or dallas, and sf & la plus asia, south america. As much as ual has been shrunk, don't count out AA making a run. Would not be much bigger than the new dal, with a little pruning here and there for the DOJ. Now, the only problem would be having to fly with the 500hr wonders.

Are you smoking crack? Best fleet mix? Best core structure? Ok, so what planes do you have on order to keep up with other carriers orders? You gonna strip those 777's of paint to give them more range? How old are most of your planes? And if you do order some planes...where's the financing coming from? You guys are DEAD in the water without a merger. I'd be praying for one too.

FYI...there's no 500 hour wonders at CAL.
FYYI....I've flown with 20,000 hour pilots that couldn't figure out a RNP approach to save their lives.

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Are you smoking crack? Best fleet mix? Best core structure? Ok, so what planes do you have on order to keep up with other carriers orders? You gonna strip those 777's of paint to give them more range? How old are most of your planes? And if you do order some planes...where's the financing coming from? You guys are DEAD in the water without a merger. I'd be praying for one too.

FYI...there's no 500 hour wonders at CAL.
FYYI....I've flown with 20,000 hour pilots that couldn't figure out a RNP approach to save their lives.

Simmer down, junior. There are 500 hr wonders at CAL. Don't get offended by it. It's called the "family" vote. I can think of 2 off the top of my head. Neither had 121 time before starting. One upgraded, for first time in a 737.

As for UAL's structure, why would Larry even entertain a merge/code share/Joint venture, if UAL had nothing to offer. UAL's current state is due to pathetic management. With a proper captain at the helm, it could shine. That's where Larry and team come in. Who cares, you and I can't do anything about it. If it happens, mature integration won't happen with attitudes like that at the table.

As Sonny said, good luck to us all.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Hint: I don't work for ual, my avatar gives a hint. Don't smoke crack. Maybe I will try it in the 2035 when I retire. Imho, while uals fleet is starting to age, my guess is its avg is comparable to the new dal(even if you subtract the dc9s) and aa. Ual has a large short bus fleet for domestic, a large 75/76 fleet and of course the 77 and 744s. Huge posistion in ord, sfo, lax. They have given up on the east coast, however anyone they merge with has that(aa,cal,lcc) Anyone of those carriers will do what the new delta is doing and put the correct aircraft in the correct market. With the right leadership and combo ual could once again be the dominating airline they were in the late 80s and 90s. Now lets look at cal. You have ewr and iah that really count. No real presence out west and a small footprint in asia but an impressive Euro footprint. You need ual and they need you. Just as nwa/dal. As far as planes. Getting them will not be a problem. When needed, boeing, airbus, ge, iflc will get them asap for a carrier the size of ual. Did you notice the as far as the 500hr wonder comment?? As far as ual being dead, don't count on it. Most of the airline world was hoping for cals demise throughout the 80s and 90s due to the drag y'all were on wages and benefits.

Are you smoking crack? Best fleet mix? Best core structure? Ok, so what planes do you have on order to keep up with other carriers orders? You gonna strip those 777's of paint to give them more range? How old are most of your planes? And if you do order some planes...where's the financing coming from? You guys are DEAD in the water without a merger. I'd be praying for one too.

FYI...there's no 500 hour wonders at CAL.
FYYI....I've flown with 20,000 hour pilots that couldn't figure out a RNP approach to save their lives.

 

[JimmyKool]

Could you imagine the cockpit with a dik bump scab Capt from CAL who "saved the company" flying with a militant screwed by Tilton UAL guy. Fun times....

 

[Furloughed80]

I really don't see this going beyond a Joint Venture.

 

[NuGuy]

Hint: I don't work for ual, my avatar gives a hint. Don't smoke crack. Maybe I will try it in the 2035 when I retire. Imho, while uals fleet is starting to age, my guess is its avg is comparable to the new dal(even if you subtract the dc9s) and aa. Ual has a large short bus fleet for domestic, a large 75/76 fleet and of course the 77 and 744s. Huge posistion in ord, sfo, lax. They have given up on the east coast, however anyone they merge with has that(aa,cal,lcc) Anyone of those carriers will do what the new delta is doing and put the correct aircraft in the correct market. With the right leadership and combo ual could once again be the dominating airline they were in the late 80s and 90s. Now lets look at cal. You have ewr and iah that really count. No real presence out west and a small footprint in asia but an impressive Euro footprint. You need ual and they need you. Just as nwa/dal. As far as planes. Getting them will not be a problem. When needed, boeing, airbus, ge, iflc will get them asap for a carrier the size of ual. Did you notice the as far as the 500hr wonder comment?? As far as ual being dead, don't count on it. Most of the airline world was hoping for cals demise throughout the 80s and 90s due to the drag y'all were on wages and benefits.

Heyas Cobra,

You are seeing the end result of ipod generation of pilots.

They've never been told "no", never had a really rough ride in their career, and never had to instruct, sweep the hangar floor or any other character building activity.

They slid right out of whatever puppymill ("Thanks Dad! Can I have keys to the Hummer?") they went to, right into the right seat of an RJ (the jet job they were "owed") and through a quirk of timing, wound up at a major, where, thanks to crappy, post 9/11 workrules, fell right into seats that were typically VERY senior in the past.

Now, ooopsie, it looks like some game changer, which is SO common in this industry, has got them all upset and they can't find their blankie...

The problem with these pups is that no old timer ever sat down with them over a beer and told them how the industry REALLY works.

Well, let me be the first: "Get used to it, son, there are NEVER any 'good times'. Save money, because it's a short ride".

Cobra, I also agree with you about UAL. Great ship, no rudder. With the right crew, it could be a fearsome powerhouse.

Nu

 

[flyipilot]

Funny how we don't see anyone trying to merge with SWA....or even join an alliance with them.

SWA does not need a merger. They are the ONLY successful airline out there. Why would they merge when they are seeing the majors fall around them? NW/DL will shrink a bit as they merge together. UA will file Chap 7....they are already in bankrupt..(just a matter of filing). CO will either take the pieces or might merge with UA prior to a Chap 7 filing but do not think UA will be here if they do nothing. Many larger companies have fallen and UA is not a big company anymore. They are hanging on by a thread and sliding fast. Use your FF miles now I tell my friends...the end of their existance is within a year.