CAL Management Proposal, Delta's Contract

[bcp7]

Perhaps it has been mentioned earlier, but in the contract that was in effect prior to 1997, CAL pay rates were the same no matter the equipment flown.

 

[pianoman]

... how do we stay competitive against Delta if we are flying a E175/CRJ700 at $164 for 5 yr Captain and $85 for 2 yr FO? Cockpit cost- $249.
Compass- Cockpit cost- $143 (for 18yr Captain/FO!)
Comair- Cockpit cost- $142 (for 18yr Captain/FO!)

The scope language in Delta's PWA is a no vote for me and probably most of the pilots at CAL. But we can't put our heads in the sand and not discuss how we;
A) Secure 70+ seat aircraft at Continental Mainline at a livable wage while
B) Remain competitive with our competition who are also using those aircraft.

Do you think fuel suppliers, parts manufacturers, and airline management worry about how CAL can afford to pay them?

 

[motch]

Actually, some do.

That's why United Airlines got such a bad interest rate when they had to deal with their vendors.

But that is not the point, the point is.. we should be asking ourselves-
What is the cost of the Delta PWA if applied here?

If the cost is @ 500 mil, then there is no reason for the company to not implement our proposal!
If it's even more.. better yet!
If it's less, then it's even easier to say.. you're giving us a concessionary contract from another carrier that is bigger than us and now doing better than they originally were when they signed the deal.

Again, do you think that CAL will be successful in the long term if we're paying almost double for fuel and parts than our competition?
Why is everyone scared to pay industry average for 50 seat, 70-76 seat, 90-110 seat aircraft?

When someone says- we have a payscale, it's the same as a 737-300/500 I ask this. Would we fly a 747-400/8I or A380 at our current 777/767-400 rate? Hell no we wouldn't. We would demand another payscale. And rightfully so.

ALPA National should have come out with some sort of aircraft payscale nation wide years ago.

 

[motch]

Something else, as I was talking to a friend and this came up.

Since management has been so kind to offer us Deltas PWA+1 (Being sarcastic, before I get slammed)... and we all know it's a NO Vote IF it were even going to be put out for a vote (Which it won't). Why not look at the SouthWest Pilots agreement and use that for our 737 fleet.

I've heard so many guys say 'SWA Payscales'.. how about their whole contract? Not sure if it's even been done where you have separate work rules for separate fleets.. but why couldn't it be?

Again, this is only for discussion, but it is a pretty interesting idea.

 

[BID]

If we had AMR's work rules we would need more pilots, if we had SWA work rules we would need less. I don't remember the exact numbers, but off the top of my head it was like +600 if we had AMRs work rules and about -300 if we had SWAs. These values were in a union publication mailed to CAL's pilot group.
Please correct me if I am wrong about this.

SWA has great pay scales, but lacks solid retirement benefits. Is CAL's retirement better?

I will take the pay rates SWA! No question there.

On a side note, can you imagine how much money CAL is going to make operating the 787. You think we will see any of it? I hope we get this contract in place soon.

 

[CesnaCaptn]

I've heard so many guys say 'SWA Payscales'.. how about their whole contract? Not sure if it's even been done where you have separate work rules for separate fleets.. but why couldn't it be?

Again, this is only for discussion, but it is a pretty interesting idea.

After bk until a few years ago, United used to have separate work rules for their bus and guppy fleets. They lost some of their rigs and had many FAR work rules.

 

[AWACoff]

Actually, some do.

That's why United Airlines got such a bad interest rate when they had to deal with their vendors.

But that is not the point, the point is.. we should be asking ourselves-
What is the cost of the Delta PWA if applied here?

If the cost is @ 500 mil, then there is no reason for the company to not implement our proposal!
If it's even more.. better yet!
If it's less, then it's even easier to say.. you're giving us a concessionary contract from another carrier that is bigger than us and now doing better than they originally were when they signed the deal.

Again, do you think that CAL will be successful in the long term if we're paying almost double for fuel and parts than our competition?
Why is everyone scared to pay industry average for 50 seat, 70-76 seat, 90-110 seat aircraft?

When someone says- we have a payscale, it's the same as a 737-300/500 I ask this. Would we fly a 747-400/8I or A380 at our current 777/767-400 rate? Hell no we wouldn't. We would demand another payscale. And rightfully so.

ALPA National should have come out with some sort of aircraft payscale nation wide years ago.

Motch,

Delta +1 is a concessionary contract offer. How you can even begin to pontificate that it could be $500 million dollars better than ours is unbelievable.

You have fallen into the trap that many pilots have. The pilots think they are smarter than they are and they need to negotiate for management. Do the smart thing. Trust management to not bankrupt our company. Shoot for the moon and take every dollar you can from them. In the end, you either trust management to do their job or you don't. Stop trying to "save" the airline by negotiating management's position. You're a pilot. Start trusting your N.C. to their job and stop helping management manage the pilot group's expectations.

 

[RSRVWINDSURFR]

Actually, some do.

That's why United Airlines got such a bad interest rate when they had to deal with their vendors.

But that is not the point, the point is.. we should be asking ourselves-
What is the cost of the Delta PWA if applied here?

If the cost is @ 500 mil, then there is no reason for the company to not implement our proposal!
If it's even more.. better yet!
If it's less, then it's even easier to say.. you're giving us a concessionary contract from another carrier that is bigger than us and now doing better than they originally were when they signed the deal.

Again, do you think that CAL will be successful in the long term if we're paying almost double for fuel and parts than our competition?
Why is everyone scared to pay industry average for 50 seat, 70-76 seat, 90-110 seat aircraft?

When someone says- we have a payscale, it's the same as a 737-300/500 I ask this. Would we fly a 747-400/8I or A380 at our current 777/767-400 rate? Hell no we wouldn't. We would demand another payscale. And rightfully so.

ALPA National should have come out with some sort of aircraft payscale nation wide years ago.

YOU'RE STILL YAMMERING ON AND ON ABOUT THIS? You are like a teenage girl who doesn't know when to stop talking. Seriously, if we took out your posts on this 8 page thread, it would be 1 page long. Why don't you take the advice of your fellow pilots on here and STFU and let your NC speak for you and the rest of us. Sheesh!

 

[mamba20]

YOU'RE STILL YAMMERING ON AND ON ABOUT THIS? You are like a teenage girl who doesn't know when to stop talking. Seriously, if we took out your posts on this 8 page thread, it would be 1 page long. Why don't you take the advice of your fellow pilots on here and STFU and let your NC speak for you and the rest of us. Sheesh!

Second that. Motch, please let our union do its job. If you have feed back then tell them directly.

 

[motch]

Since I've been busy the last few days, I haven't gotten a chance to reply-
So here it is.

I have worked as a Local Council Sec Tres.
I have worked as an ALPA Safety Rep.
I have attended Union Meetings on my days off.
I marched on Wall Street two years ago, and in IAD back in my TSA days.
I vote in Union Elections.

On top of that, I still wear the uniform of the USAF on a (more) than part time basis.

Therefore, I will speak my mind whenever and wherever I feel like it. You don't like it.. come and tell me that to my face at the next Union meeting in EWR.

Not only have I emailed my reps, I have emailed my MEC and also asked questions at Union meetings and on the townhall conference calls. Plus, I have also written my CP (FA) with my concerns- when we were planning to furlough (2 years ago) and recently with the rash of double pumps of reserves.

I have never been afraid to ask tough questions, nor have I hidden behind bull******************** screen names. My nickname is "Motch" and most of the people in my aviation career know me as Motch.

This website is about discussions. Do you few guys really think the 4800 Continental Pilots read FI and are going to be influenced by a single pilot? Get a grip.
Do you think CAL Management is going to base it's strategy on what "Motch" says on a website?
Stop kidding yourself.

I have spoken with my union leadership, I sent them my C08 minimums and I continue to voice my opinion on how this is playing out.
I expect to be walking a picket line next Fall. I am putting cash away just for that.
The Delta PWA+1 is a NO..

What are you doing?

Always
Motch
FUPM~DARMA~Shut It Down