CAL Management Proposal, Delta's Contract

[NWaviator]

Does the DAL contract have an anti-furlough clause?

 

[General Lee]

Mishap, can you show me where it would be a pay cut?
It's a no vote in my book, anyway..

CAL 737 rates
12 yr Capt= 150/169 (depending on which model)
6 yr Capt= 142/161
12 yr FO= 102/116 (depending on which model)
6 yr FO= 91/104

Delta 737 rates
12 yr Capt= 168
6 yr Capt= 160
12 yr FO= 114
6 yr FO= 104

When you add the whooping $1.. Captain rates are the same, FO rate could be $1 less is flying the large 737's

Don't forget, the Delta contract also has $6/$4 International Override.

The Big problem I see, (Besides the blaring SCOPE issue!) is the min guarantee.
At Delta it's ALOT lower than ours. But it's my understanding that Delta has Green (colored?!) slips that greatly improve their pay for flights that they pick up as extra.

I think management screwed the pooch here with thinking we'd go for this. Then again, maybe they put it out knowing we'd say no.. just to gauge our commitment!

Motch

Most of the time you have to be senior to get green slips. In the Summer, maybe not, but most of the rest of the year only the very senior get them. Also, DL pilots used to have night pay, and more INTL override than currently allowed. JB pilots get double pay on holidays, which would be nice. DL pilots do have a 100 seat pay rate (for CR9--more than 76 seats, E190, and a bit more for the E195---but actually below JB's current pay rate on them, since it was done prior to JB's last contract).

Don't give in on Scope, and raise the bar on wages. Look at SWA or even JB rates before you look at DL's. Also, get rid of that Aer Lingus A330 deal (IAD to MAD) before you merge with UAL. That is ridiculous.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Does the DAL contract have an anti-furlough clause?

Not really. There is something about people at a certain number on the list not getting furlough without "Forced Manure", but the thing that keeps them from not furloughing every year is the flow down to Compass or Mesaba. That would be way too expensive, unless the furlough is more than 2 years long. There is a break even point somewhere in there that they use cost wise, and the training for E175 Capt, along with retraining after a furlough just costs too much. DL was over 1000 pilots fat this last Winter, and that flowdown kept them from pulling the trigger.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[motch]

hay General Lee..
Can you (or ACL) please reply to my thread about the Delta contract..
Thanks
motch

 

[chppr5]

hey jeff:

F no to your scummy proposal!!!

Hey calalpa:

You had better be smart enough not to send this out for a vote. Otherwise i vote we get rid of alpa!

That's smart, get rid of ALPA. How about recalling your MEC and negotiating committee. You don't have the MCF to go this alone!

 

[bizicmo]

I can't believe there is this much discussion on this. Scope relief = no vote, that's all that should be said, period. If they had said 70 seaters at the best regional rate plus $1 it would have people going crazy, so giving them away should be just no.

 

[mamba20]

Okay, email to my rep and to the MEC chair sent.

 

[mamba20]

That's smart, get rid of ALPA. How about recalling your MEC and negotiating committee. You don't have the MCF to go this alone!

Your right, a counter proposal + St. Patricks Day + Flight Info = fired up pilot running his mouth.

 

[Deerkiller]

It's a no vote for me (not that this is a TA) for scope reasons, obviously. I've spoken to and emailed my reps already this afternoon. I don't think that we have to worry about this going to a vote. Scope is sacred to the four reps in IAH and EWR (I can't speak for GUM, CLE, or TI). If the other voting reps push for a TA, then the IAH and EWR group can roll call. I think, however, that this response shows the management is willing to play ball. I personally believe that Star is leaning on them heavily to get the the JV going and our contract is holding up the works. Let's all take a breath and relax for a second and let our reps, who we all trust, do their thing.

 

[motch]

DeerKiller-

Great Post~

 

[ForgedBlade]

4) No Retro = No vote.

1000% correct there!!

 

[cal 73]

Delta's pay scales are less then ours in the top end. Plus its a BANKRUPTCY contract. With the economy improving, we need a, not good, but great improvement in pay scales just to keep up in 2-3 years from now. Nevermind the scope, that has to stay. Without it, I bet CAL would just love to get Chitaquas newly ordered 140 seat jets flying our routes. Hope the union tells them to go and ***** themselves. And the sooner the better.

 

[Smarta$$]

No fu$%$**&g scope relief. Not one big rj. For the love of god, please...

 

[mamba20]

Write your reps people. Very important.

 

[hotwing]

It's a no vote for me (not that this is a TA) for scope reasons, obviously. I've spoken to and emailed my reps already this afternoon. I don't think that we have to worry about this going to a vote. Scope is sacred to the four reps in IAH and EWR (I can't speak for GUM, CLE, or TI). If the other voting reps push for a TA, then the IAH and EWR group can roll call. I think, however, that this response shows the management is willing to play ball. I personally believe that Star is leaning on them heavily to get the the JV going and our contract is holding up the works. Let's all take a breath and relax for a second and let our reps, who we all trust, do their thing.

Can I second this motion...

 

[Billsflyer]

2 things. There are still 8% in raises that are not accounted for in Airline Pilot Central, and also a 2% increase for retirement. It would be interesting to know if CAL management added that in.

Where exactly is a current pay table for Delta?

How many 70+ RJs where on property or ordered when this most current Scope section was written? Is that where the 255 number came from?

Cheers

 

[RSRVWINDSURFR]

BAD Idea....

...
Unless there is a black and white provision that states-
No Furlough if even one 70-76 seat RJ is on property AND
For every 70-76 seat RJ, park one Q-400 AND
For every 70-76 seat RJ, one 100 seat C series (or equivalent) at mainline.


Always
Motch
FUPM~DARMA~Shut it Down

Motch,

That is a TERRIBLE idea. All they have to do is get them on property. Once that happens, all hell breaks loose.

"Sorry, guys fuel is starting to rise, Jeff needs a raise, the economy hasn't recovered enough, insert your own lame excuse....."

Look at USAIRWAYS, those large RJ's were flown by furloughed US air pilots FOR A WHILE until management decided to let CHQ fly them instead.

Don't sell yourself (and me) short. NO SCOPE RELIEF. Don't be a sucker with those lame provisions you listed. Management will probably offer something just like it. DONT FALL FOR IT. They will just change them down the road, and you will be on the street because of it.

 

[AWACoff]

Thank god you're not part of the NC. Give up on scope... Yeah, in you're dreams. Motch stop negotiating in public and please stop pretending to talk for the CAL pilots. You sound like a management mole. Go back to Ford and Harrison.

Homer..
I haven't yet because I want to hear from CAL ALPA just how many more Pilots (Captains and FO's) would be required using the staffing formula of Delta.
I also need to hear from my Delta buddies, what their loopholes are in their contract.

I will speak with Tara in the future and will tell her my issues. 70-76 Jet Scope is a non starter for me...
Unless there is a black and white provision that states-
No Furlough if even one 70-76 seat RJ is on property AND
For every 70-76 seat RJ, park one Q-400 AND
For every 70-76 seat RJ, one 100 seat C series (or equivalent) at mainline.

In a way, our crack management team has overnight made this fight for a new contract involve not just the 4800 CAL pilots, but now also the 12200 DAL pilots! Thank You~

Always
Motch
FUPM~DARMA~Shut it Down

 

[list2002]

I'm surprised this is much of a discussion. Scope=NO. MGMNT I think expects us to vote no on whatever comes out first, just to say we did. If this is what we waste our big NO vote on that's a shame. MGMNT wins if it even goes to a vote.

 

[pianoman]

Yeah- don't even let the foot in the door on scope. At least they're jobs and furlough fodder for mainline pilots. Ironic that some of these guys on furlough were directly stuck and downgraded while at CoEx because of the flow-through, but then kicked to the street later because it's gone.

These would provide:

a. new jobs and direct control over who's flying our brand
b. a place to go for pilots on property when things go downhill again
inevitably