CAL Management Proposal, Delta's Contract

[JOPILOT]

This will pass, any takers? JP

 

[Homer Jay]

ALL CAL PILOTS,

E-mail you reps immediately! Tell them to not even entertain this POS and that scope is not, nor will it EVER, be for sale. Go to calalpa.org to get your reps e-mails addresses and let your voice be heard. Tell them not only no, but F*** NO!

 

[Mr.B]

ALL CAL PILOTS,

E-mail you reps immediately! Tell them to not even entertain this POS and that scope is not, nor will it EVER, be for sale. Go to calalpa.org to get your reps e-mails addresses and let your voice be heard. Tell them not only no, but F*** NO!

Hopefully you guys will have the sense that was lacking at UAL and an MEC Chairman who is not willing to sign a back-room deal. This most definitely cause the furlough of HUNDREDS of CAL pilots. Why do you think management wants this? They are NOT increasing capacity, only outsourcing jobs...YOUR job.

It happened at UAL....It will happen at CAL.

Now, will the more senior pilots throw the juniors under the bus? Its happened before.

 

[motch]

While I find it semi funny (that management can't do any better than Delta +1$) I also see some good in it-

1) Delta is a post bankruptcy contract. Now the Union can go back and say.. sure, lets look at pre bankruptcy contract and talk!

2) What are the rules governing RJ's to mainline flying at Delta? Thought there was something at Delta that limited the amount of RJ's compared to mainline aircraft.

3) Lets not forget the $1.2 Billion that was used to sweeten the pot for the Delta/NWA merged pilot group.

4) No Retro = No vote.

5) Does Delta have a 100 seater agreement in their contract?

6) As far as guys saying they would make less with a Delta contract here, you need to prove that to me. A few friends at Delta that are around my hire date here, make alittle more BUT work alot less... big difference~

I guess we can now work with the DALPA group and close their loopholes with our new contract. management has now said that we are the same as they are... cool.
No more 756 guys flying both international and domestic flying. Separate BES's for 757-200 and 767-400. IRO's on most flights.. Full double crews for the triples.. no more 1 Capt and 3 FO's... list can go on and on!

Thank you Management for finally admitting that you have been taking advantage of this pilot group and now want to get us closer in line with the worlds largest carrier!
It's gonna be great when we are marching on a picket line next year, with Delta pilots in support.. cause we demand BETTER than the Delta contract!

Always
Motch

FUPM~DARMA~Shut it Down

 

[motch]

This will pass, any takers? JP

I'll take the bet that in 18 months from now.. I'm either walking a Picket line or will have gotten a much better contract.

This will not pass.

Motch

FUPM~DARMA~Shut it Down

 

[mishap]

Don't give away scope. Get the pay raises, but stand strong on scope. Also, scope means RJs and other things, like INTL scope too.


Bye Bye--General Lee

That's just it, it's not a pay raise! In some equipment it is a small raise, in other it is a pay cut. The retirement is less than current book, the pay guarantee's are less than current book. For a reserve 737 captain it would be a $7000/year pay cut!!

Your work rules are a great starting point, scope and pay are a non starter.

 

[PapaSiera]

That's just it, it's not a pay raise! In some equipment it is a small raise, in other it is a pay cut. The retirement is less than current book, the pay guarantee's are less than current book. For a reserve 737 captain it would be a $7000/year pay cut!!

Your work rules are a great starting point, scope and pay are a non starter.

2 things. There are still 8% in raises that are not accounted for in Airline Pilot Central, and also a 2% increase for retirement. It would be interesting to know if CAL management added that in.

 

[PapaSiera]

Also, don't forget that DL pilots get a 2% 401k contribution without pilots having to contribute themselves. So currently they are at 12% total, with 2% more to add. So total retirement would be 14%.

 

[SuperFLUF]

....

6) As far as guys saying they would make less with a Delta contract here, you need to prove that to me. A few friends at Delta that are around my hire date here, make alittle more BUT work alot less... big difference~
....

12 year DAL 737NG Capt +$1 = $169/hr. @ resv. guar. 70 hrs = $11,830

12 year CAL 737 Capt blended rate $163.53/hr @ resv. guar. 76 hrs = $12,428

vacation months pay $13,327 - $14,071

I know that good work rules = soft time = less time away for more $$

But I seriously doubt that would amount to over $7000/yr for a reserve pilot and even if it did it would only get a resv 737 ca back to concessionary contract '02 levels. I don't want to have more days off for the same money, I want it for more money. The loan is due and I want a return on what I "invested".

So, no f'n way to DAL +$1. I would not vote yes if they capitulated and agreed to our current economic proposal.

We HAVE the leverage. "The rent's due.....and don't you be pullin' that fallin' down the stairs sh*^ again..."

 

[motch]

Mishap, can you show me where it would be a pay cut?
It's a no vote in my book, anyway..

CAL 737 rates
12 yr Capt= 150/169 (depending on which model)
6 yr Capt= 142/161
12 yr FO= 102/116 (depending on which model)
6 yr FO= 91/104

Delta 737 rates
12 yr Capt= 168
6 yr Capt= 160
12 yr FO= 114
6 yr FO= 104

When you add the whooping $1.. Captain rates are the same, FO rate could be $1 less is flying the large 737's

Don't forget, the Delta contract also has $6/$4 International Override.

The Big problem I see, (Besides the blaring SCOPE issue!) is the min guarantee.
At Delta it's ALOT lower than ours. But it's my understanding that Delta has Green (colored?!) slips that greatly improve their pay for flights that they pick up as extra.

I think management screwed the pooch here with thinking we'd go for this. Then again, maybe they put it out knowing we'd say no.. just to gauge our commitment!

Motch

 

[SuperFLUF]

2 things. There are still 8% in raises that are not accounted for in Airline Pilot Central, and also a 2% increase for retirement. It would be interesting to know if CAL management added that in.

I'm sure they added that in. The massive scope relief and lack of retro more than makes up for that.

Besides, I would hazard to guess they got their info from DAL mgmt, not APC.

 

[wms]

The regional guys were constantly reminded that the -700s and -900s are "still just regional jets". Then ML pilots lost flying because of them.

That said, I believe ALL JETS should be flown at ML.

CAL Pilots, don't cave like DALPA.

 

[motch]

SuperFluf..

Good math!
You are right, in your case.. a 737 reserve pilot would be making $598 less a month than our current contract BUT he is also working 6 hours less.

Now the question becomes, what is more important. QoL or Pay?

If that same reserve pilot now picks up a trip on his day off, does he get 150% for the time flown? Now all of a sudden he is making an extra $1521 for the same amount of work he use to do.
That's an extra 18 grand a year~

The work rules are just as important as the pay scales. I started a thread about Delta work rules on here and look forward to seeing the answers.
Like I wrote earlier.. this is a No vote for me already. But it does give me somewhere to start.

I expect CAL ALPA to work the financial's for what this DALPA contract would cost CAL based on the extra Captains and FO's we would need at CAL using Delta's staffing. Bet it comes close to our original 500 mil.

 

[Homer Jay]

Motch,

This whole thing is sugary coated piece of s***. I wrote all my reps as well as Pierce expressing my outrage at MGMT and asking them to not even entertain the idea. I hope you did the same. FUPM!!!!

 

[tie1on]

delta's contract with old payrates from 2001 contract ok.

 

[Skippy]

come on- its just a feeler sent out by mgmnt-- remember they only have to get 50.1% of th egroup to agree--- if it goes to a vote- which mgmt wants, but alpa wont let it - it would let mgmt know what they need to get the remaining % to get to 50.1%--- its the most basic tactic of all time---- just dont vote and keep mgmnt guessing.

SKIPPY

 

[motch]

Homer..
I haven't yet because I want to hear from CAL ALPA just how many more Pilots (Captains and FO's) would be required using the staffing formula of Delta.
I also need to hear from my Delta buddies, what their loopholes are in their contract.

I will speak with Tara in the future and will tell her my issues. 70-76 Jet Scope is a non starter for me...
Unless there is a black and white provision that states-
No Furlough if even one 70-76 seat RJ is on property AND
For every 70-76 seat RJ, park one Q-400 AND
For every 70-76 seat RJ, one 100 seat C series (or equivalent) at mainline.

In a way, our crack management team has overnight made this fight for a new contract involve not just the 4800 CAL pilots, but now also the 12200 DAL pilots! Thank You~

Always
Motch
FUPM~DARMA~Shut it Down

 

[thor2j]

It's a definite pay cut if you fly 767-200.

Even though there is a lot more then pay rates, can a DL guy plz post the real rates with annual raises.

No way in hell is my vote. Scope is not open for discussion.

 

[mamba20]

hey jeff:

F no to your scummy proposal!!!

Hey calalpa:

You had better be smart enough not to send this out for a vote. Otherwise i vote we get rid of alpa!

 

[mamba20]

The regional guys were constantly reminded that the -700s and -900s are "still just regional jets". Then ML pilots lost flying because of them.

That said, I believe ALL JETS should be flown at ML.

CAL Pilots, don't cave like DALPA.

Here is one NO vote right here.