CAL GUYS, PAY not as they stated in writting.

[AlbieF15]

While we may not be at the bottom, we can see if from here.

Folks are walking from CAL and JB. Age 60 has meant that the FO wages better be livable, because some of us are going to be on them for a while. I think we got a shot across the industry on these next contracts for some serious improvements...

Its not a question of whether guys will leave their company or their industry. Its happening already.

Skybus? Nobody will stay. They'll fill some classes with some new meat that want A320 type ratings, but just as JB is having a hard time filling classes as the train has slowed and rapid upgrades aren't happening--Skybus will see the same thing.

 

[Ex737Driver]

An ex-CAL guy (left after 9 months for SWA) was in the XJT weather room yesterday telling a story that his hotel room wasn't scheduled in IAH the night before his IOE. He called scheduling and they told him it wasn't their problem and advised him to sleep in the crew room. He said it happened to 4 other guys in his new hire class.

There is no way I cold work for that place after hearing so many stories. Yes, for you history buffs, I interviewed, was hired, and turned them down when they called me with a class date. Definitely wost major IMO.

I was most concerned that nothing is going to change there for a long time.

You have obviously not worked for XJT for very long. You call CAL the worst major but are quite blind to the pile of crap you are sitting in at Express.

 

[Pocono Pilot]

You have obviously not worked for XJT for very long. You call CAL the worst major but are quite blind to the pile of crap you are sitting in at Express.

I've been at XJT for a few years now, actually. Though things are just starting out with our own branded airline, I am confident at what is going on here so far for the most part.

Your CEO is wrecking what was once a good airline. First by sub-ing out all the flying when we were doing great providing your feed. Always nice to see a CHQ plane painted in United colors flying for CAL in IAH. Nice job Larry and Co. Way to honor the brand.

I can also say confidently that I would rather work for XJT until I move onto another major airline, instead of work for CAL.

Is it true that pilots are actually getting hired with CAL and leaving for SWA, FedEx, UPS, DAL? Don't bother to answer, I know they are.

Why are they doing that? It must be pretty bad at CAL.

Also, I didn't start this thread, I just answered a post, and as usual, you CAL guys are ripping me. Is it because I would rather work at XJT then CAL? Do you also rip the guys that are leaving CAL for DAL?

What gives?

 

[Crucianpilot]

I've been at XJT for a few years now, actually. Though things are just starting out with our own branded airline, I am confident at what is going on here so far for the most part.

Your CEO is wrecking what was once a good airline. First by sub-ing out all the flying when we were doing great providing your feed. Always nice to see a CHQ plane painted in United colors flying for CAL in IAH. Nice job Larry and Co. Way to honor the brand.

I can also say confidently that I would rather work for XJT until I move onto another major airline, instead of work for CAL.

Is it true that pilots are actually getting hired with CAL and leaving for SWA, FedEx, UPS, DAL? Don't bother to answer, I know they are.

Why are they doing that? It must be pretty bad at CAL.

Also, I didn't start this thread, I just answered a post, and as usual, you CAL guys are ripping me. Is it because I would rather work at XJT then CAL? Do you also rip the guys that are leaving CAL for DAL?

What gives?

I am not going to criticize you for what you have said. Like they say, to each his own. However, I have been here for almost 2 years and this has been the best job I have ever had in this business. This is my 6th airline so I do have a lot to compare it to. Yes, there are some issues that need to be addressed in our next contract negotiations (PBS, compensation, etc..) but every company has its issues. There are a lot of things that we do here that were never done at some of the other places that I worked at. I am very happy with my decision to come here and I plan to finish my career here. By the way, there are quite a few people leaving other airlines to come here also (Airtran, Jetblue, etc..) so it is happening to all airlines. Everyone has their reasons.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I am not going to criticize you for what you have said. Like they say, to each his own. However, I have been here for almost 2 years and this has been the best job I have ever had in this business. This is my 6th airline so I do have a lot to compare it to. Yes, there are some issues that need to be addressed in our next contract negotiations (PBS, compensation, etc..) but every company has its issues. There are a lot of things that we do here that were never done at some of the other places that I worked at. I am very happy with my decision to come here and I plan to finish my career here. By the way, there are quite a few people leaving other airlines to come here also (Airtran, Jetblue, etc..) so it is happening to all airlines. Everyone has their reasons.

Six airlines, and you don't see the problem with starting over again at $30K and paying for your own health insurance. We've done it to ourselves.... nobody to blame but ourselves.....

 

[Tommy Boy]

$25,894.08 per year first year, plus you have to pay for your own health insurance..... is it any wonder that people are leaving for SWA.....

Well deduct the price of 'One 737 type rating' and it seems pretty much the same s**t to me. And they pay for insurance after 6 months, not a year. True the first year pay sucks but remember that this is the concessionary contract. If you look at the numbers, CAL kept most of our pilots after 9/11 and brought everyone back as quick as they could.

I have worked for at least 8 companies in my aviation career and CAL has treated me the best of all of them.

By the way, if you know anything about airline flying you would know that 72 hrs is just the guarantee. Without putting out much effort at all, you will easily make 35k the first year... and no Koolaid or type rating required.

 

[Whiskerbizkit]

CAL has always had sub-par pay even before 9/11 with a weak pilot group. Any place that lets scabs be union officals should raise some flags.

 

[Whataburger]

Koolaid required

Well deduct the price of 'One 737 type rating' and it seems pretty much the same s**t to me. And they pay for insurance after 6 months, not a year. True the first year pay sucks but remember that this is the concessionary contract. If you look at the numbers, CAL kept most of our pilots after 9/11 and brought everyone back as quick as they could.

I have worked for at least 8 companies in my aviation career and CAL has treated me the best of all of them.

By the way, if you know anything about airline flying you would know that 72 hrs is just the guarantee. Without putting out much effort at all, you will easily make 35k the first year... and no Koolaid or type rating required.

Just so we keep the facts straight. If you like CAL then it's great you're there. SWA Facts = Year one, no less than $50k first year, pay and bennies start at hire date, Reserve for 2 months, 15-16 min. days off on reserve. Year two, no less than $90k. Year 3, no less than $100k. These numbers are base just on flying 95TFP or less. The average is 110TFP/mo.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Skywriter,

Give the letter to your Contract Admin or Grievance Committee Chairman. He/she will take care of it. Since you're not the only pilot on probation who received the letter, ALPA can fix it without putting you on the skyline.

Use your resources.

 

[SOVT]

I cannot speak to your letter but mine was as follows.

"Aircraft and base assignments will be established on the second day using class seniority. Class seniority is determined by your date of birth, with the oldest being the most senior in the class. The B737 is the normal starting equipment, but it is not unusual for a new hire to be awarded a B757/B767 position. First year pay is $29.97 per hour, regardless of the equipment flown, with a minimum pay guarantee of 76 hours per month as a reserve pilot; however, if you are awarded the Guam base and commit to an 18-month stay, you will receive second year pay on arrival in Guam. Second year pay for a reserve pilot is $58.44 per hour with a 76 hour per month guarantee. In addition, Guam pilots receive a Cost of Living Allowance of $1100 per month."

In this case it was pretty clear to me that the pay was for a reserve pilot. It has been my experience that while in training you get training pay, at least that is the way it has worked in the three airline jobs I had prior to this.

 

[Hpilot]

As a probationary pilot? I'd classify that as poor judgment.

Totally agree with that. A guy at Airwisky brought this kind of attention on himself. They waited until the year probation meeting then said "don't let the door hit you on the way out".

 

[Lear70]

A) Never seen a pilot fired for something so small. Never seen a probie fired at all, and I have seen some probies do some pretty darn dumb stuff.

You must have worked at some very cool places.

I've seen it happen many, many times.

However, of those that happened, most occurred because the person in question either had the tact of a pit bull or the brain of one.

Sounds like the question has already been answered: you read your letter incorrectly. Glad this forum was good for something helpful to you (clarification). Sorry it's not in your favor (pay).

As far as Skybus? Get the type rating, use it to go Ex-Pat DEC for $150k+ a year. Keep their training costs SKY high...

 

[Bavarian Chef]

While we may not be at the bottom, we can see if from here.

Folks are walking from CAL and JB. Age 60 has meant that the FO wages better be livable, because some of us are going to be on them for a while. I think we got a shot across the industry on these next contracts for some serious improvements...

Its not a question of whether guys will leave their company or their industry. Its happening already.

Skybus? Nobody will stay. They'll fill some classes with some new meat that want A320 type ratings, but just as JB is having a hard time filling classes as the train has slowed and rapid upgrades aren't happening--Skybus will see the same thing.

And do you refuse to prep any of them, especially those dirtbags from jb or skybus?

(toungue in cheek, albie. actually a deeper question than the mob will take it for.)

 

[talespin]

CAL has always had sub-par pay even before 9/11 with a weak pilot group. Any place that lets scabs be union officals should raise some flags.

Well there is a lot of new young blood at this company who have been eating sh!t for a long time at the regional carriers, so hopefully we will stand together for contract 08. I know everyone I talk with is pissed and won't settle for less. I hope this holds true as we approach the table. You guys keep in mind we are the first ALPA carrier to go through this since 9/11 and all the bullsh!t cuts, so what ever airline your at a little support would be nice and hopefully our contract will pay off in the end when yours comes around.

 

[Uniform Shop]

This cracks me up. If you have only been at XJT for a few years and you won't go to CAL, and still look for a "better" airline while you're there, you're nuts. It's a lot easier to leave CAL for another airline then it is from XJT. Why someone wouldn't make the move is beyond me.

First year pay does suck and no insurance for the first 6 months is total B.S. That will change, I guarantee it. I wish you could see our private message boards. That's one of the hottest topics. I also guarantee that our pay is going to go up substantially on the next contract. If it doesn't you will see pilots leaving everyday.

As far as new hires leaving. There are a few people leaving but not as much as this message board makes it out to be. I know people who have gone back to DAL because of their pension settlement and longevity. I would leave too if I was going to get 200,000 into my 401K and 7th year pay. Everyone has their reasons for leaving.

I honestly believe that we have some of the best flying in the industry. As a new hire you have the option to fly all over the world in wide body aircraft or fly 737's all over the U.S., South America, Caribbean and Mexico. If you combine our flying with a decent contract then you would have one of the most desired places to be.

They gave up way too much on the last contract but it was negotiated by morons during the worst downturn in Aviation history and it will get better.

 

[pkober]

An ex-CAL guy (left after 9 months for SWA) was in the XJT weather room yesterday telling a story that his hotel room wasn't scheduled in IAH the night before his IOE. He called scheduling and they told him it wasn't their problem and advised him to sleep in the crew room. He said it happened to 4 other guys in his new hire class.

There is no way I cold work for that place after hearing so many stories. Yes, for you history buffs, I interviewed, was hired, and turned them down when they called me with a class date. Definitely wost major IMO.

I was most concerned that nothing is going to change there for a long time.

bye farr da bust speeling seene 2 dait!

Good luck with your career choices. Every airline I have worked for, 3 majors, has problems. If your looking for a dream airline job, keep looking. Anyone who thinks that the airline they work for is perfect must be smoking crack.

 

[pkober]

CAL has always had sub-par pay even before 9/11 with a weak pilot group. Any place that lets scabs be union officals should raise some flags.

I guess you feel the same way about UAL. If the scab issue bothers you than you should be mad a ALPA national. They welcomed the CAL scabs back into the fold with open arms. It's all about money. I don't like what the scabs did either and they suck as pilots. But you can't lump all of CAL into some kind of scab group. Most of us are "loyal" ALPA members in good standing.

As far as pay goes, look at our pay now compared to the other majors. If we are now sub-par, then most others are sub-parrier. First year pay sucks and hopefully will be addressed in 08.

 

[Andy]

A) Never seen a pilot fired for something so small. Never seen a probie fired at all, and I have seen some probies do some pretty darn dumb stuff.

B) Ignorance on the subject? Disagreement is not a sign of ignorance. How many airlines have you been employed by? This is my third in 9 years, so I think its safe to say I have the ability and background to draw a rational opinion on this subject.

I personally know two pilots who were canned during their probationary year; one at United and one at Alaska. I know both of them and was on a first name basis with both of them. I know of several others who were canned from various airlines during probationary year.
If you say that you've never seen a probie fired at all, then yes, you are ignorant on the subject. Either you haven't noticed or you don't know many pilots. So by your statement that you've never known a probie to be fired indicates that you do not have the ability and background to discuss this subject.
How many airlines have I been employed by? Two. But I know hundreds of pilots at all different airlines.

The problem here is that you do not know if the original poster draws attention to themselves on a regular basis. If so, the very best recommendation is that they keep a low profile for a year.
SOVT has posted the letter that he received from CAL; this whole thread is because the original poster was unable to comprehend the concept of being a reserve pilot vs being in training. That tells me that the original poster is not the sharpest knife in the drawer (harsh statement, but the letter is clear enough). Based on this, I would say that the very best advice that could be given to the original poster is to have a low profile for a year.

 

[pianoman]

An ex-CAL guy (left after 9 months for SWA) was in the XJT weather room yesterday telling a story that his hotel room wasn't scheduled in IAH the night before his IOE. He called scheduling and they told him it wasn't their problem and advised him to sleep in the crew room. He said it happened to 4 other guys in his new hire class.

There is no way I cold work for that place after hearing so many stories. Yes, for you history buffs, I interviewed, was hired, and turned them down when they called me with a class date. Definitely wost major IMO.

I was most concerned that nothing is going to change there for a long time.

Oh no a scheduling problem?! That NEVER happened to me at XJT!

I've always defended the choice of guys who want to stay at XJT and pass up CAL. Would you mind laying off slamming my choice for a little while? There are ups and downs to every place but, honestly, you're just making yourself look petty and immature by doing this.

 

[IslandDriver]

Just Food for thought

First year pay at Continental : $27,360
First Year at SWA: $48,672 - $7,000 for type = $41,672 plis you do not have to pay COBRA to keep your family insured......


All based on min gaurantee 737

In short over your first 4 years at CAL you will make $190,000 (min on 73) SWA you will make $320,000 (min on 73) at CJC you can make $225,000 on the Q over the next 4 years as a Captain....something to think about when you jump ship for CAL.