Breaking Colgan Alpa News

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You know, a status rep. who abandons his pilot group in the middle of negotiations to take a job at a non ALPA carrier says a lot. It not the message you wanted to send, but it speaks volumes nonetheless.

Cheap shot.... unprofessional....

How long should a union rep stick around when a better opportunity is presented for him.her and familiy....

One monkey doesn't stop the circus and doesn't run it either.... there is always someone else to do the job...

One wouldn't blame other pilots for quitting and going to a better job..so why blame another pilots who volunteers in addition.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Not sure where you got that idea, Joe. Allegheny-Mohawk LPPs don't apply in this case. The LPPs were a casualty of deregulation. Back in the 60s and 70s, the CAB was able to force the LPPs on merging carriers, but after deregulation, the LPPs are no longer involved unless specifically required by a CBA. Since the CJC pilots have no contract, they have no protection under the LPPs. The PCL MEC has nothing to stop them from using negotiating capital to achieve a list integration and a staple. But, like I said, I doubt the PCL MEC would staple. It would certainly be nice for the CJC pilots to have some assurance of that through a merger policy, though...

I got that from the boiler plate language in Sect. 1 of the ASA CBA. What does the PCL language say?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Cheap shot.... unprofessional....

How long should a union rep stick around when a better opportunity is presented for him.her and familiy....

One monkey doesn't stop the circus and doesn't run it either.... there is always someone else to do the job...

One wouldn't blame other pilots for quitting and going to a better job..so why blame another pilots who volunteers in addition.....

It does illustrate that ALPA isn't necessary for a "better job"..... the evidence speaks for itself.... you cheerleaders don't want to see the evidence....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

It does illustrate that ALPA isn't necessary for a "better job"..... the evidence speaks for itself.... you cheerleaders don't want to see the evidence....

What evidence Joe.... I want to see it! Show it!

 

[JoeMerchant]

What evidence Joe.... I want to see it! Show it!

Many non-ALPA jobs are better than many ALPA jobs... You do not need ALPA to have a good job and you know it....

Many regional pilots understand this and are voting against ALPA..... You ALPA cheerleaders have your work cut out for you..... Good luck.....

 

[PCL_128]

I got that from the boiler plate language in Sect. 1 of the ASA CBA. What does the PCL language say?

That language in Section 1 is meant to deal with mergers that are initiated by the company of their own volition. It's designed to protect the seniority rights of the pilots who are covered by the CBA so the company isn't able to force an unfair integration in such a circumstance.

This situation is different. The company is attempting to operate the two airlines separately, but the Association would probably like to see the two pilot groups combined. To accomplish that, they would likely have to expend negotiating capital to achieve it. If that's the avenue they choose, then the current CBA language dealing with the LPPs would be irrelevant, because the MEC can negotiate whatever integration that they choose to fight for. Again, the Mesa/Freedom situation is a perfect example. The MAG MEC negotiated a specific integration with the company. The LPPs never came into play, and the Freedom pilots never had a say in the final integration. The PCL MEC could certainly do the same. During the course of their Section 6 negotiations, or as a result of scope grievance/lawsuit settlement, the MEC could negotiate a staple-job without the LPPs ever coming into play. The LPPs are only relevant if the company decides to merge the companies on their own and forces an integration.

 

[PCL_128]

Many non-ALPA jobs are better than many ALPA jobs... You do not need ALPA to have a good job and you know it....

Those non-ALPA jobs are only equal or better because those companies match or exceed ALPA contracts in order to keep a union off of the property. JetBlue and Skywest are perfect examples. The managements there are so desperate to keep ALPA off the property that they'll actually pay a premium to do it. If ALPA didn't exist, then these good jobs would also cease to exist. These non-union carriers are piggy-backing on ALPA's power and success without contributing to the cause. The bad thing for these pilots, however, is that even though they have good pay and working conditions, they don't have any sort of protections for terminations, no grievance process, no accident hotline, etc... So, even though the company throws them a bone with good rates and QOL, they are still not receiving the full benefits of ALPA representation.

Many regional pilots understand this and are voting against ALPA..... You ALPA cheerleaders have your work cut out for you..... Good luck.....

You know as well as I do that that has nothing to do with why organizing drives are uphill battles at regionals. The problem isn't that the regional pilots are anti-ALPA; the problem is that too many regional pilots are newbies that don't know any better, and many of them are just plain complacent and don't look at the industry around them. The Colgan drive failed, in my opinion, because too many pilots thought that it was a sure thing and didn't get off their butts to vote. It had nothing to do with an anti-ALPA attitude. I would wager that only 10-15% of the CJC pilot group was really opposed to ALPA representation. The rest of them were just complacent.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Not to mention the Skywest, Colgan and Jetblue pilots have no representation in Washington DC or the international arena.

Face it Joe... ALPA has its problems but its contributions to the pilot profession are there. It may be difficult for the avg. pilot to quantify becuase most pilots only understand what directly effects them. It is very difficult to see the indirect effect...

 

[N2264J]

What evidence Joe.... I want to see it! Show it!

AirTran, American, Southwest, jetBlue, UPS & Skywest. All are doing just fine without ALPA, thank you very much.

The thing that chaps me about PCL 128 is that he obviously doesn't believe Pinnacle has the potential to be a career airline or even should be.

That's a preconceived notion coming from ALPA.

 

[TurboAWD]

The thing that chaps me about PCL 128 is that he obviously doesn't believe Pinnacle has the potential to be a career airline or even should be.

That's a preconceived notion coming from ALPA.

No, that's experience gained from working here. Pinnacle will not be a good place to work, even with a good contract, unless mgmt changes.


Turbo

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

AirTran, American, Southwest, jetBlue, UPS & Skywest. All are doing just fine without ALPA, thank you very much.

And all those represented buy contract services from ALPA.

UPS got a managment contract and FedEx (ALPA) got a pilots contract..

Airtran is doing fine? ok.....

American is doing fine...agreed...and the others... but thier Washington DC presence is low to nil. Thier int'l representation is very low....

If you take the avg. pilots expectations, which is, what is my union doing for me right now and combine that with his/her understanding of what is workable and pragmatic then you've got a point...

 

[Kingzrt]

Careful dude they are union... Did they tell you that?

I didnt vote at all because I didn't like the chinese food at LGA. Anyway so long Colgan suckas I just got hired by Netjets.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Many regional ALPA leaders have been trying for 15 years to get ALPA to address the regional/major scope issue.

Any many pilots with a chip on their shoulders have plug their ears and refused to listen to the facts.

Evidence: You won't even answer the question I posed earlier: "What are YOU willing to pay for it?"

You're positing an "entitlement" that involves other pilots paying the full price of getting you a good deal. One of those pesky facts is that you're more than wiliing to do their job for less...which is the only reason the "problem" exists in the first place.

There are a lot of cool things I'd like to have too...if I didn't have to pay for them.

 

[DX Rick]

Those non-ALPA jobs are only equal or better because those ......

You remind me of that nagging FA, complaining the whole entire time of her 15 kids, and 3 STD's...

Are you going to be able to pay of your GIA bills with your new Air Tran bill?
ALPA rep moving onto a non ALPA carrier....something you want to tell us? You preach ALPA to everyone, but take a job with a non ALPA carrier....Sounds fishy, like your breath.

 

[qpilot]

Not surprising to me at all. Why would any pilot want to give part of thier paycheck to ALPA. What has ALPA done to stop the unbelievable assault on our careers in the last few years? NOTHING. I agree with the previous post that said it is a NO confidence vote in ALPA.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Not surprising to me at all. Why would any pilot want to give part of thier paycheck to ALPA. What has ALPA done to stop the unbelievable assault on our careers in the last few years? NOTHING. I agree with the previous post that said it is a NO confidence vote in ALPA.

Here is but a small part...

When Virgin America was trying to redefine foreign ownership laws, ALPA, ensured that VA played by the rules.

THe concern is once a carrier begins operation here that is foreign owned then the labor becomes foriegn.

 

[N2264J]

And all those represented buy contract services from ALPA.

What's your point? Buying services al la carte gets those pilot groups what they want while not being subject to the dictates of the hard line elephant MECs.

By the way, I forgot one: Horizon. Can you find it in your heart to forgive me?

UPS got a managment contract and FedEx (ALPA) got a pilots contract...

I'm not sure UPS pilots would agree with your description of a "management contract" but suffice it to say that they don't seem to be beating a path to ALPA's door.