Breaking Colgan Alpa News

[JoeMerchant]

If ALPA (and other unions) are such a good "product" you shouldn't have to "sell" it. If it's as good as you all say it is, it should sell itself. You'd have pilots and other groups clawing down doors trying to get in.

Apparently, that isn't happening. Ask yourself why.

I have this weird idea that people might actually be able to think for themselves. Crazy idea, I know. Sorry for all of this alternative thinking crap.

Exactly 405..... ALPA is a failure and many pilots can see that.... The cheerleaders then come out and tell you that it is your fault, not ALPAs....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe if ALPA has failed then so have you. You are fustrated because you don't have the skill set or vision to see this through. You do not know how to convince others in ALPA about your issue...

Because you lack the skillset to bring people together and because you can't solve the problem you go for bottom feeding lawyers and lawsuits....

Many regional ALPA leaders have been trying for 15 years to get ALPA to address the regional/major scope issue. MEC Chairmen from ASA, CMR, and other regionals addressed the first ALPA scope committee in the early 90s about the impending train wreck. The train wreck has now happened and the ALPA cheerleaders like yourself are trying to blame the very people who said this would happen.

While you and PCL128 offer you "sales pitch", most pilots are either apathetic because they don't plan on being at the regionals very long, or they see ALPA for the failure it has become.

Either way, I am going to protect my job thru any legal means possible.... If that harms ALPA, so be it....

 

[N2264J]

And for what it's worth, the current MEC leadership at NWA opposed the NewCo (Compass) debacle.

And for what it's worth, Compass was ALPA's idea:

http://www.rjdefense.com/2004/nwa70.pdf

You know, a status rep. who abandons his pilot group in the middle of negotiations to take a job at a non ALPA carrier says a lot. It not the message you wanted to send, but it speaks volumes nonetheless.

 

[PCL_128]

PCL 128 is blowing smoke about a staple of Colgan. The fact of the matter is ALPA is having difficulty combining seniority lists period. Even if they did, it would follow the ALG/Mohawk provision which I doubt would result in a staple. PCL 128 is just trying to scare you guys into voting for ALPA.....

Not sure where you got that idea, Joe. Allegheny-Mohawk LPPs don't apply in this case. The LPPs were a casualty of deregulation. Back in the 60s and 70s, the CAB was able to force the LPPs on merging carriers, but after deregulation, the LPPs are no longer involved unless specifically required by a CBA. Since the CJC pilots have no contract, they have no protection under the LPPs. The PCL MEC has nothing to stop them from using negotiating capital to achieve a list integration and a staple. But, like I said, I doubt the PCL MEC would staple. It would certainly be nice for the CJC pilots to have some assurance of that through a merger policy, though...

 

[PCL_128]

And for what it's worth, Compass was ALPA's idea:

http://www.rjdefense.com/2004/nwa70.pdf

Yeah, I know. Compass was the idea of a former MEC that no longer exists. The NWA pilots kicked them out and replaced them with reps that better represent them. The majority of the current MEC and the NWA EVP were not in favor of the Compass deal.

You know, a status rep. who abandons his pilot group in the middle of negotiations to take a job at a non ALPA carrier says a lot. It not the message you wanted to send, but it speaks volumes nonetheless.

I'm not too concerned with what you think about me. The pilots that I represented were happy with the representation that I provided, and that's all that matters to me.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You know, a status rep. who abandons his pilot group in the middle of negotiations to take a job at a non ALPA carrier says a lot. It not the message you wanted to send, but it speaks volumes nonetheless.

Cheap shot.... unprofessional....

How long should a union rep stick around when a better opportunity is presented for him.her and familiy....

One monkey doesn't stop the circus and doesn't run it either.... there is always someone else to do the job...

One wouldn't blame other pilots for quitting and going to a better job..so why blame another pilots who volunteers in addition.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Not sure where you got that idea, Joe. Allegheny-Mohawk LPPs don't apply in this case. The LPPs were a casualty of deregulation. Back in the 60s and 70s, the CAB was able to force the LPPs on merging carriers, but after deregulation, the LPPs are no longer involved unless specifically required by a CBA. Since the CJC pilots have no contract, they have no protection under the LPPs. The PCL MEC has nothing to stop them from using negotiating capital to achieve a list integration and a staple. But, like I said, I doubt the PCL MEC would staple. It would certainly be nice for the CJC pilots to have some assurance of that through a merger policy, though...

I got that from the boiler plate language in Sect. 1 of the ASA CBA. What does the PCL language say?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Cheap shot.... unprofessional....

How long should a union rep stick around when a better opportunity is presented for him.her and familiy....

One monkey doesn't stop the circus and doesn't run it either.... there is always someone else to do the job...

One wouldn't blame other pilots for quitting and going to a better job..so why blame another pilots who volunteers in addition.....

It does illustrate that ALPA isn't necessary for a "better job"..... the evidence speaks for itself.... you cheerleaders don't want to see the evidence....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

It does illustrate that ALPA isn't necessary for a "better job"..... the evidence speaks for itself.... you cheerleaders don't want to see the evidence....

What evidence Joe.... I want to see it! Show it!

 

[JoeMerchant]

What evidence Joe.... I want to see it! Show it!

Many non-ALPA jobs are better than many ALPA jobs... You do not need ALPA to have a good job and you know it....

Many regional pilots understand this and are voting against ALPA..... You ALPA cheerleaders have your work cut out for you..... Good luck.....

 

[PCL_128]

I got that from the boiler plate language in Sect. 1 of the ASA CBA. What does the PCL language say?

That language in Section 1 is meant to deal with mergers that are initiated by the company of their own volition. It's designed to protect the seniority rights of the pilots who are covered by the CBA so the company isn't able to force an unfair integration in such a circumstance.

This situation is different. The company is attempting to operate the two airlines separately, but the Association would probably like to see the two pilot groups combined. To accomplish that, they would likely have to expend negotiating capital to achieve it. If that's the avenue they choose, then the current CBA language dealing with the LPPs would be irrelevant, because the MEC can negotiate whatever integration that they choose to fight for. Again, the Mesa/Freedom situation is a perfect example. The MAG MEC negotiated a specific integration with the company. The LPPs never came into play, and the Freedom pilots never had a say in the final integration. The PCL MEC could certainly do the same. During the course of their Section 6 negotiations, or as a result of scope grievance/lawsuit settlement, the MEC could negotiate a staple-job without the LPPs ever coming into play. The LPPs are only relevant if the company decides to merge the companies on their own and forces an integration.

 

[PCL_128]

Many non-ALPA jobs are better than many ALPA jobs... You do not need ALPA to have a good job and you know it....

Those non-ALPA jobs are only equal or better because those companies match or exceed ALPA contracts in order to keep a union off of the property. JetBlue and Skywest are perfect examples. The managements there are so desperate to keep ALPA off the property that they'll actually pay a premium to do it. If ALPA didn't exist, then these good jobs would also cease to exist. These non-union carriers are piggy-backing on ALPA's power and success without contributing to the cause. The bad thing for these pilots, however, is that even though they have good pay and working conditions, they don't have any sort of protections for terminations, no grievance process, no accident hotline, etc... So, even though the company throws them a bone with good rates and QOL, they are still not receiving the full benefits of ALPA representation.

Many regional pilots understand this and are voting against ALPA..... You ALPA cheerleaders have your work cut out for you..... Good luck.....

You know as well as I do that that has nothing to do with why organizing drives are uphill battles at regionals. The problem isn't that the regional pilots are anti-ALPA; the problem is that too many regional pilots are newbies that don't know any better, and many of them are just plain complacent and don't look at the industry around them. The Colgan drive failed, in my opinion, because too many pilots thought that it was a sure thing and didn't get off their butts to vote. It had nothing to do with an anti-ALPA attitude. I would wager that only 10-15% of the CJC pilot group was really opposed to ALPA representation. The rest of them were just complacent.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Not to mention the Skywest, Colgan and Jetblue pilots have no representation in Washington DC or the international arena.

Face it Joe... ALPA has its problems but its contributions to the pilot profession are there. It may be difficult for the avg. pilot to quantify becuase most pilots only understand what directly effects them. It is very difficult to see the indirect effect...

 

[N2264J]

What evidence Joe.... I want to see it! Show it!

AirTran, American, Southwest, jetBlue, UPS & Skywest. All are doing just fine without ALPA, thank you very much.

The thing that chaps me about PCL 128 is that he obviously doesn't believe Pinnacle has the potential to be a career airline or even should be.

That's a preconceived notion coming from ALPA.

 

[TurboAWD]

The thing that chaps me about PCL 128 is that he obviously doesn't believe Pinnacle has the potential to be a career airline or even should be.

That's a preconceived notion coming from ALPA.

No, that's experience gained from working here. Pinnacle will not be a good place to work, even with a good contract, unless mgmt changes.


Turbo