Bose X Headset Caveats - FYI

[FearlessFreep]

I have owned a Bose X headset for about a year. Recently after having not using it in a while (furloughed) I started using it and noticed that on occasion if there is any sort of bumping or vibration that contacts the headset the ANR function will shut off. I have also found that even just sitting there without touching the headset the ANR would just shut off. I tried changing the batteries out and this did not have an effect.

I just got off the phone with Bose tech support and they informed me that it was the Ear Pads. The ear pads are specially acoustically engineered to work in conjunction with the ANR electronics. The foam that they utilze has special acoustical properties and as such MUST be replaced with OEM pads or the unit will not work properly.

This is the kicker - the tech stated that the rated lifetime of the ear pads is...200 hours of use. My usage of the headsets turned out to be about 270 hours, so that is pretty much on the mark.

If I would have known that I was paying $980.00 for a headset in which I would have to dole out an additional $20.00 for every 200 hours of operation over and beyond the cost of 9 volt batteries I would have given this purchase much more serious consideration. A lifetime of 200 hours of usage at $20.00 a pop is totally unacceptable to me. I will have to start looking for an acceptable replacement.

On top of this in October I ordered the mike/pendant update for the headset. That was supposed sent to me by now. I was now informed that the date of availability has no been pushed out to mid December. The support of these headsets are for me a big surprise since in the past I have always dealt with David Clark and have never had any problems. DC headset operation has never had the proviso of not properly operating after 200 hours of usage.

If anyone has any suggestions for an alternative ANR solution for use in a 3 crewmember jet please let me know what it is.

If I find an acceptable replacement there will be a pair of Bose X headsets available at a fire sale price!

 

[Q200_FO]

Bose=expensive junk

That's one of the reasons why I refuse to buy a Bose headset. I've flown with too many Captains that have had too many problems with those damm things. The ANR keeps going out, wiring coming out of the headset causing all kinds of noises and interference making the ANR function worthless. Having to buy separate parts too often like you just described. I'll stick with my trusty Dave Clark H10-30 which is 7 years old which has survived multiple drops on solid concrete, drops in deep puddles of water after squeezing myself out of the 150 on raining days, leaving it overnight in a aircraft when the temp is below 0 degrees F. And having to buy ear seals at 20 bucks every 200 hours? Complete bull$hit. Bose intentionally designed the headset like that so they can laugh all they way to the bank when the suckers who bought it keep shelling out the cash.

 

[bart]

I have had nothing but great results with mine with over 1800 hours of use (with one replacement of the ear pads at about 1500 hours. Mine will lose the ANR on a very weak battery when it contacts a vibrating surface, but never with a new battery.

If you want to get rid of them, let me know.

 

[fr0g]

Well, I guess I just lucked out..
Because I have had a Bose X for over a year now, and put 1000+ hours on it.. it lived in my flight bag on cold cold -30 MT winter mornings and on 100 summer days.. no problems so far. I must say that I am happy with it so far, but then again this is the first I have heard about the earcups..

 

[avbug]

I'll buy your bose. Just let me know. As for use in a turbojet; why not just use a telex airman? Something light enough you don't have to think about it. After all, you're in a turbojet.

If you need an ANR unit, Telex makes several good ones, as does Senheiser, all in the five hundred dollar range.

 

[skyking1976]

Try Sennheiser. They have comparable sound quality to the Bose and they have good mikes too. German engineering at its finest!

 

[Lopaka]

Same here. Mines have lasted so far for a good 800 hrs. w/ no trouble. Only time the ANR bumps off is with a low batt. When Bdays and Christmas comes around I just ask for 9 V's and then I'm set for a while

 

[DoinTime]

Well over 2500 hours on my Bose X and not a single problem. No new ear cups, never been serviced, no new nothing. Only a fresh battery every 45 hours or so. I have found that people that don't treat their equipment with care will have problems with the Bose. Dropping your Bose "on solid concrete" or "in deep puddles of water" will not go over to well. Its unfortunate that a full earcup, ultra quiet, amazingly lightweight headset can't be manufactured to withstand nuclear war but such is the price that must be paid for the best aviation headset ever made.

 

[turning2]

First I've heard of the earcup issue.

Gotta agree with those above. Thus far +1500hrs on mine without a problem. Money well spent in my mind. I've had DC's and still have one as a back up. After long legs I always felt like a vice in the DC, can easily do 3-4hrs with the bose. But most importantly.... been driving a tprop and I can still hear.

 

[FearlessFreep]

Well thanks for all your inputs - couple of things; my headsets have always been well taken care of so it is not like I have abused the equipment. I have used a number of headsets over the years. In the jet cockpit the DC's are not appropriate, so I really don't want to go into how effective these units are in prop aircraft. I have used them already and they are quality units, though after using the Sennheiser unit DC's are truly head clamps.

Here are my short reviews on some equipment I have direct experience with:

Telex 750's - audio on one side died, no noise attenuation, use with earplugs necessitated turning up the radio to very high levels, and I still might miss radio calls. Was too light and would fall off my head. Modified with a 5x5 dual band headband that made the headset fit much better.

Telex 5x5 w/earmold - Never was loud enough, would miss radio calls and was downright painful after use all day. No noise attenuation whatsoever.

Sennheiser HMEC-25KA - Sweet unit, semi-closed cup design, sits directly on your ear. ANR with that design is actually superior to my DC ENR unit which is a fully closed ear cup design. Works great, batteries (2 ea AA's) last long time. Why do I still not use these? After about 3 hours of use I get hotspots on my head and the pain from the cups sitting directly on the ears induces headaches that are nearly debilitating. I have tried everything to get this set to be comfortable for up to 12 hour flights. Intra crew communication was easily facilitated and in the case some crewmembers voice pitch would be drowned out by ambient noise, one of the ear cups could be pivoted to the side. Never had a complaint with usage of the mic. Actually have had complements on it's clarity. Did work on HF as well, though on occasion did have problems (This is a pretty common occurence with all headsets which would necessitate utilization of the hand mike for HF communication)

Bose X - The most comfortable unit that I have had. Prior to purchase read some reviews that extolled the value of these headsets and confirmed their utilization capacity in a jet cockpit. Noise attenuation is NOT as good as the Sennheiser, but again the unit is more comfortable and this is a major factor of operation. Intra crew communication is more of a problem and unless the other crewmembers speak very distinctly or the pitch of their voice is very different than that of the ambient noise frequency I usually end up having to wear the set with one cup off the ear. Sort defeats the point of having an ANR headset. Occasionally have had complaints about the transmit quality from the mic, and yes I have it close enough to my mouth. It is still very disappointing to have problems with the unit so early in it's service life.

I would be interested in hearing how well the Telex 850's are, but they would not be an option as the aircraft I fly are not equipped with a hot mike, VOX or whatever else is required to power that unit. If it had an external power source it might be an option depending on just how well they function.

The Panther CAT system looks interesting but I would really like to have receive capability in both ears and I do not know how effective intra crew communication would be with the earmolds in place all the time.

Well that's my take on it!

Good Luck To Us All!

 

[avbug]

Again, I don't understand why you feel you need ANR in a turbojet cockpit. Apparently you do, and that's fine. You indicated using earplugs with Telex Airman 750's. I can't imagine why anyone would do that...why even bother with 750's if you're going to wear ear plugs, anyway??

If one side goes out in your headset, you call telex, and they fix it for you. They're good about that. Most manufacturers are.

My guess is that you are looking for ANR due to the length of your flights. If you have a Sennheiser and like it, why not simply make the padding adjustments to make it fit? Slip an oregon aero headband, and try some cloth earcovers.

Otherwise, get the bose fixed, or sell it to me.

 

[FearlessFreep]

avbug,

Say what? I can't hear you!

Of course I want to save my hearing. Here's a little news flash, the only way that your going to experience the world and life itself is through your senses. Taste, touch, smell, kinetics, hearing and sight. Lose or have any of them diminished and you lose your ability to experience life to it's fullest extent. I go out of my way to preserve all the senses that I have to my best ability.

I have been in a number of different jet cockpits and there have been varying degrees of noise in them both from model to model and individual aircraft to aircraft. They are all different. There is a lot more noise than you might realize. From my understanding you should talk to ERJ pilots. They say that cockpit is so loud you have to use DC type headsets.

The Sennheiser problems have nothing to do with padding, it has to do with the pressure applied to the ears and the general geometry of the set. Slapping an Oregon Aero Headband will not work, it won't even fit this headset. You are obviously not familiar with the model or it's design. Cloth earcovers is not going to fix the problem and the cloth ear covers will probably negatively affect the ANR. Your suggestions are going to have to be a bit better and not so generic.

I made a post to state a problem that I thought some people may be interested in knowing before they go out an purchase a $1000.00 headset. The point of it was not to denigrate the headset or the company - it was a let the buyer be aware. I related my experiences without rancor.

My advice to you is that it sounds (can you hear that?) like you want a Bose headset. Well go buy one, because I not "giving" you mine. I suggest you get it out of Anchorage- slightly cheaper and no sales tax. Have a nut!

 

[travis]

Count me in...

One more vote for the Bose X. No problems with mine since I bought them 2 years ago.

Lopaka - I solved the battery problem for me by taking a 9.6v NiMH battery for a remote control car and making an adapter that fits into the Bose's 9v bay. That sumb!tch will now go for a good two-three weeks before needing a recharge. Total cost is about $25. Hollar if you want help making one of your own.

Avbug - I agree ANRs may seem like overkill in a turbojet, but let me tell you about my experience. I had used nothing but DCs from 152s to SA227s. Then I got a pair of 750s when I got a Lear job. I used to have dog hearing. I mean, it was bionic. I used to freak the girls out when they gave me hearing tests. After a few years in the lears, however, I noticed a very distinct loss of hearing. I decided to try the Bose X. Two years later, I'm glad I did because my hearing has returned. Perhaps I don't need ANR headsets in the lear, but if I want to preserve my hearing for as long as possible, I'm convinced they'll help.

 

[vclean]

I installed the aftermarket ANC from HeadSets Inc. (~$170) into my 12 year old DC 10-20. Results have been great The life of the 9 volt battery was less than 25 hours, so I have a 6 AA battery holder taped to the 9 volt battery box. The battery box has a battery voltage LED (green - good, yellow - low, red - dead), and an automatic inactivity power-off function. Battery life in any ANC is determined by the ambient noise level. The noisier the flightdeck, the more the ANC works to cancel it.

http://www.headsetsinc.com

 

[Hovernut]

Mine have worked great for 800 hours of flight instruction and a year of flying the CRJ. No earcup replacements, either. Get a pair of rechargeable 9v batteries here

 

[SkyWestCRJPilot]

This info has been helpful. I'm looking for a new ANR headset for the Brasilia that I've returned to flying. After flying the CRJ for 2 years I'm still not used to the noise level in the E-120. I realize that I have to turn up the audio volume very loud to hear over the ambient noise my standard Dave Clarks attenuate. I've even tried using earplugs with my big DCs. What headset works well for the E-120? I've always been thinking about a Bose X but the comments in this thread make me wonder.

Avbug, headsets are needed in the CRJ cockpit. The newer ones are quiter than older CRJ models. The noise comes from the wind, not the engines. As you go faster the decibel level rises with IAS. Above 250 knots IAS the wind noise was really uncomfortable in the older CRJs. I just flew as a passenger on the ERJ-145XR this weekend. I enjoyed the flight but was surprised at how loud the cabin was, again due to the wind noise. The CRJ wasn't so loud for passengers in the cabin.

Interestingly enough if you want to have a quiet cockpit in the CRJ you can do the fuel conservation climb, climb at 250 knots up to your highest safe altitude, FL 350 or higher. Then once up there your indicated airspeed is so low that it stays quiet even in cruise at mach. 77 and high true airspeeds. If you speed up to Vmo on descent then it will get loud again though.

 

[avbug]

Freep,

I don't want a bose headset. I made those comments because you were the one who said you wanted to sell your at fire sale prices. Keep it, fix it, enjoy it.

You folks have NO concept what a loud cockpit sounds like. A learjet is quiet. Almost all turbojet aircraft are. Big or small. I've flown in the loudest cockpits of any aircraft ever built, and have a pretty good basis for comparison...as well as flying a variety of turboprop and turbojet equipment.

Folks used to tell me the Merlin was a loud airplane. Compared to some, it's a bit noisier...but it's not loud. People told the the C-130 was loud, but I can dinstinctly remember transferring to one from a 4Y one season, and I had to remove my headset during the takeoff roll because I couldn't hear the engines. No vibration. I had to keep glancing at the engine instruments to convince myself that nothing was wrong. Wisper quiet.

Hearing loss in a learjet? Age related, perhaps. Not the airplane. It's just not that loud.

 

[DoinTime]

Avbug,

In the past you have shown an impressive depth of knowledge over a wide range of topics but in this thread you proved that you know absolutely nothing about the anatomy and resilience of the human ear. Perhaps the reason you think most aircraft cockpits are quiet is because you have already lost a good portion of your hearing.

 

[avbug]

Actually, I'm well aware of the psyiology of the ear and surrounding structures, as well as the potential for damage at many hearing levels by noise.

I'm also aware that many are posting based on their limited experience in relatively quiet cockpits to begin with, and I'm telling you, it just ain't so.

By the same token, I've sat in cockpits with very experienced pilots who screamed bloody murder when they thought they had severe turbulence, and thought it really was. It was moderate at best. But they'd never seen worse, to make the comparison, and couldn't seem to apply the proper criteria to judge it for what it was, experience notwithstanding.

Extensive hearing is more from application to ramp noise than sustained wind noise over the cockpit (or cabin). It's not that loud.

ANR doesn't protect. It works in a narrow frequency range, and gives the impression of a reduction in noise. It noise hasn't actually been reduced. We are comforted by the placebo of perceived sound, as a small portion of the total noise is "reduced" by phase application of sound waves in those frequencies.

True hearing damage doesn't even occur through the auditory canal. It's occuring through the bone structure surrounding the auditory canal. For those ANR units that do not encase the ear and serve to dampen and prevent vibration against the bone structure surrounding the ear itself, the image of noise reduction is had, but not the fact. Any potential damage is still occuring, to say nothing of the distant research that has yet to be attended with respect to hearing loss OWING to ANR useage. Look into that in 15 years, and you may be very surprised what you learn.

Have I lost my hearing? You betcha. Sit behind a radial engine long enough, and it's all but inevitable, no matter what protection you have. I had plenty, and it still occured. Between big, loud engines, maintenance expeience with lots of riveting, proximity to piston and turbine engine runs on the ground, gunfire, and truly loud cockpits, there is no question that I have hearing loss on many levels. I no longer function well with a single side headset; if I'm not hearing with both ears, I'm not hearing well. I used to listen to music with the volume turned down almost all the way. Today, I turn it up a bit. Doing it just the opposite; maybe I'm becoming a kid again, or perhaps growing old prematurely due to environment.

I have grey hair early, too. And wrinkles...it's a mileage thing (not year of manufacture). The eyesight is going; it's a little harder every time I try for that first class medical. The weight climbs just a little each time. Still well within limits, but discouraging in some small way...kind of like each birthday.

Does that mean I don't know what I'm talking about? Not hardly.

Having said that, I can still hear a whisper across the room, and I can still spot traffic at a distance, and when I spot it, I can still tell you what it is. I'm not deaf; I still pass my physical for a medical certificate, and I still hold a first class certificate. I still hear sounds in the engine and in the airframe in flight.

I've also been in loud cockpits, and I have yet to be in a turbojet with a loud one.

If you really want loud, I stood out by the threshold at FAT once, with a sound meter, while two F-16's ran up the afterburner. I measured the sound. I then got in the cockpit of the 4Y, and it was louder at idle. At takeoff power, the meter was beyond limits, and the noise level was far beyond the threshold of pain. In fairness, after an environment like that, almost anything is quiet. However, without the comparison, you'd have to try hard to convince me that any turbojet cockpit is noisy.

 

[Swass]

Older Hawker's with the flat windsheilds are dang loud when descending.