Bose X Headset Caveats - FYI

[SkyWestCRJPilot]

This info has been helpful. I'm looking for a new ANR headset for the Brasilia that I've returned to flying. After flying the CRJ for 2 years I'm still not used to the noise level in the E-120. I realize that I have to turn up the audio volume very loud to hear over the ambient noise my standard Dave Clarks attenuate. I've even tried using earplugs with my big DCs. What headset works well for the E-120? I've always been thinking about a Bose X but the comments in this thread make me wonder.

Avbug, headsets are needed in the CRJ cockpit. The newer ones are quiter than older CRJ models. The noise comes from the wind, not the engines. As you go faster the decibel level rises with IAS. Above 250 knots IAS the wind noise was really uncomfortable in the older CRJs. I just flew as a passenger on the ERJ-145XR this weekend. I enjoyed the flight but was surprised at how loud the cabin was, again due to the wind noise. The CRJ wasn't so loud for passengers in the cabin.

Interestingly enough if you want to have a quiet cockpit in the CRJ you can do the fuel conservation climb, climb at 250 knots up to your highest safe altitude, FL 350 or higher. Then once up there your indicated airspeed is so low that it stays quiet even in cruise at mach. 77 and high true airspeeds. If you speed up to Vmo on descent then it will get loud again though.

 

[avbug]

Freep,

I don't want a bose headset. I made those comments because you were the one who said you wanted to sell your at fire sale prices. Keep it, fix it, enjoy it.

You folks have NO concept what a loud cockpit sounds like. A learjet is quiet. Almost all turbojet aircraft are. Big or small. I've flown in the loudest cockpits of any aircraft ever built, and have a pretty good basis for comparison...as well as flying a variety of turboprop and turbojet equipment.

Folks used to tell me the Merlin was a loud airplane. Compared to some, it's a bit noisier...but it's not loud. People told the the C-130 was loud, but I can dinstinctly remember transferring to one from a 4Y one season, and I had to remove my headset during the takeoff roll because I couldn't hear the engines. No vibration. I had to keep glancing at the engine instruments to convince myself that nothing was wrong. Wisper quiet.

Hearing loss in a learjet? Age related, perhaps. Not the airplane. It's just not that loud.

 

[DoinTime]

Avbug,

In the past you have shown an impressive depth of knowledge over a wide range of topics but in this thread you proved that you know absolutely nothing about the anatomy and resilience of the human ear. Perhaps the reason you think most aircraft cockpits are quiet is because you have already lost a good portion of your hearing.

 

[avbug]

Actually, I'm well aware of the psyiology of the ear and surrounding structures, as well as the potential for damage at many hearing levels by noise.

I'm also aware that many are posting based on their limited experience in relatively quiet cockpits to begin with, and I'm telling you, it just ain't so.

By the same token, I've sat in cockpits with very experienced pilots who screamed bloody murder when they thought they had severe turbulence, and thought it really was. It was moderate at best. But they'd never seen worse, to make the comparison, and couldn't seem to apply the proper criteria to judge it for what it was, experience notwithstanding.

Extensive hearing is more from application to ramp noise than sustained wind noise over the cockpit (or cabin). It's not that loud.

ANR doesn't protect. It works in a narrow frequency range, and gives the impression of a reduction in noise. It noise hasn't actually been reduced. We are comforted by the placebo of perceived sound, as a small portion of the total noise is "reduced" by phase application of sound waves in those frequencies.

True hearing damage doesn't even occur through the auditory canal. It's occuring through the bone structure surrounding the auditory canal. For those ANR units that do not encase the ear and serve to dampen and prevent vibration against the bone structure surrounding the ear itself, the image of noise reduction is had, but not the fact. Any potential damage is still occuring, to say nothing of the distant research that has yet to be attended with respect to hearing loss OWING to ANR useage. Look into that in 15 years, and you may be very surprised what you learn.

Have I lost my hearing? You betcha. Sit behind a radial engine long enough, and it's all but inevitable, no matter what protection you have. I had plenty, and it still occured. Between big, loud engines, maintenance expeience with lots of riveting, proximity to piston and turbine engine runs on the ground, gunfire, and truly loud cockpits, there is no question that I have hearing loss on many levels. I no longer function well with a single side headset; if I'm not hearing with both ears, I'm not hearing well. I used to listen to music with the volume turned down almost all the way. Today, I turn it up a bit. Doing it just the opposite; maybe I'm becoming a kid again, or perhaps growing old prematurely due to environment.

I have grey hair early, too. And wrinkles...it's a mileage thing (not year of manufacture). The eyesight is going; it's a little harder every time I try for that first class medical. The weight climbs just a little each time. Still well within limits, but discouraging in some small way...kind of like each birthday.

Does that mean I don't know what I'm talking about? Not hardly.

Having said that, I can still hear a whisper across the room, and I can still spot traffic at a distance, and when I spot it, I can still tell you what it is. I'm not deaf; I still pass my physical for a medical certificate, and I still hold a first class certificate. I still hear sounds in the engine and in the airframe in flight.

I've also been in loud cockpits, and I have yet to be in a turbojet with a loud one.

If you really want loud, I stood out by the threshold at FAT once, with a sound meter, while two F-16's ran up the afterburner. I measured the sound. I then got in the cockpit of the 4Y, and it was louder at idle. At takeoff power, the meter was beyond limits, and the noise level was far beyond the threshold of pain. In fairness, after an environment like that, almost anything is quiet. However, without the comparison, you'd have to try hard to convince me that any turbojet cockpit is noisy.

 

[Swass]

Older Hawker's with the flat windsheilds are dang loud when descending.

 

[FearlessFreep]

Hail All!

Let us all genuflect to the great god of aviation - avbug! Point of contact for all knowledge in the universe!

Seriously,

There are so many factors involved with all the issues that you mention here. It is a personal thing. In a very basic sense ANR works on the principal of nodes and anti-nodes of intersecting sound waves - by generating sound waves that cancel out the noise frequencies. How effective is this? I have no idea, I am not an engineer that specializes in this area. I do know that it appears to work, and the resultant effect is that most people find a reduction in fatigue from utilizing this technology. There are a number of articles that address this issue and the whole technology. One is even posted on the ALPA site.

Here are a few links to some information:

http://cf.alpa.org/national/departments/eas/comms/hft/anr-reportprject.htm
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/rmnelson2/index.html

The best way to save your hearing is to live in an environment where there are no loud sounds, while your at it make it dark and you can save yourself from the wrinkles that we get over time. This is not an option for most unless your highest desire in life is to become a troglodyte.

As far as sitting around on the ramp at KFAT, every time those F-16's fire up I am either jamming earplugs, fingers, or covering my ears with my hands. I find the sound pressure to actually hurt. Your measurement of sound levels there does not seem to be highly scientific. Your placement of the sound meter, isolation from vibration sources, and distance from the source are all contributing factors. I would think that you would have taken this into consideration.

Can we prevent the march down the path of age? Certainly not, but you can take action to hedge the effects to the best of your ability.

For those few extra pounds that creep on over the years - there is a cure, it's called a diet and exercise. Stay away from the Krispie Kremes my friend!

Good Luck To Us All!

 

[Wang Chung]

I've become a Bose X lover, too.

The company I currently fly for (GA aircraft, nothing too noisy) issues Bose X's to all crewmembers. With many thousands of hours of time logged on about 10 pairs of these things (including some LONG demanding days of flying), I think we're pretty pleased with the reliability. Never heard about the earpad thing, either.

Wang

 

[avbug]

Stay away from the Krispie Kremes my friend!

Anyone who has been on this site for long is well aware that I am staunch in the admonition that the Donut That Shall Not Be Named (kk) is the work of the Devil, the Adversary, Satan, the Prince of Darkness, the fallen one, the father of all lies.

Without question, the humble cake donut is the work of God, who delivered it as Manna to the Israelites in the wilderness.

It was a kk donut that Eve in her beguilement gave to Adam, initiating mankind's reach into the world from captivity in the Garden of Eden.

There IS a difference.

Your placement of the sound meter, isolation from vibration sources, and distance from the source are all contributing factors. I would think that you would have taken this into consideration.

I did.

 

[ProLine4]

Had mine now for 7+ months of hard use. No complaints or earpad problems so far. I will probably get the AA battery mod once Bose figures out how to catch up with their production delays. By far the best headset I've used. Lightspeed is plastic crap that's designed for light and occasional use (had 2 pairs with problems) the Telex Stratus is good but huge and relatively heavy, and well, friends don't let friends blindly buy David Clamps. They still offer the payment plan....$150 or so for first payment, then $82 after that. Ah yes, yet another thing in my life to finance 12 months at a time...

 

[FurloughedAgain]

I have a Bose X that i'm using in a Lear 31A cockpit. Aside from the obvious hazard of hitting my head on the side-windscreen with the earcups, I have been having two problems with it.

#1. It is intermittently creating a lot of static through the aircraft intercom. The only way to stop the static is to unplug my mic jack. Obviously thats no good.

#2. If I even so much as TAP that battery pack, the ANR circuitry turns off and will not turn on again unless I remove and reinsert the batteries. (AA)

I called Bose tech support this morning and they told me to send them back. I have a few days off at the end of the week so I'm going to ship it to them on Friday.

I'll let you know what happens.

 

[172driver]

I never had a problem with the Bose ANR kicking off in flight until I used it in the CRJ. My theory is that the cockpit is quiet enough that the ANR goes into auto shut off, as it would on the ground. There are switches inside the battery pack to disable the auto shut off function. No problems at all since.

 

[fokkers&beer]

Another vote for the Bose. Over 3000 hours on mine in over 3 1/2 years. Finally got around to changing the ear seals last fall.

It is an outstanding headset for a turboprop.

 

[Moonfly201]

Bose X. Best headset ever.

I have big ears, and the Clarks used to kill me. Four years and over 1000 hours on the Bose X, and no problems. Mine are hardwired into the panel, so I can't comment on the battery models.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Got an email from Bose stating that the headsets should be arriving back home today. Total time they were gone has been eight days.

In the email the problem was described to me: "It appears that one of the internal wires had become loose or broken. The only thing I can suggest would be to prevent the down cable from being pulled on either side of the controller, also prevent the cable from crimping."

um...ok, i'll work on that. In the meantime hopefully this repair will have solved all of the problems that had suddenly popped up.

Regardless i'll be happy to put the Bose back on after a week of flying with a set of clamps.

 

[fly4ever]

FurloughedAgain,

I had a similar problem. If I didn't have any ongoing communications for a short period of time the headset would get real quiet and the mic wouldn't open up again without unplugging and re-plugging into the jacks. I had to send it in a few times before their "senior" tech finally decided it was the down cable electronics. I had bought the upgraded cable and installed it Dec. 03. Apparently they had some quality control issues with the new cables. I haven't had the problem since they put a new cable on it last Nov.

The good news it's fixed for now and Bose stood behind their product. I just hope it doesn't show up again.

Fly