Bombardier to sell 120 planes to NETJETS???

[ArtVandalay]

Yea, flex will continue on doing what we do...shrinking the fleet, laying off, deception from the top, do I have to continue??

 

[rajflyboy]

his pride cost him his job and brk millions. He could have bought the challenger 300 and put flexjet out of business. pride got the best of him. he cant be dumb enough to think the beechjet would be better for the customers than the cj3. he figured he would buy a ton of crap for cheap and the owners or pilots wouldnt care. pride cost employees jobs as well.

Have you ever been in a CJ3 ?

Obviously not. The 400 blows the CJ3 away in all respects. CJ3 is "rinky dink".

 

[rajflyboy]

Gulfstream doesn't have to make special deals. They have a waiting list to buy the planes they are building.

Thats because their airplanes are the best Corporate Jets in the world.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/jet_setter_dogfight_for_wings_dY44RQtBAuBKBUDqy4VyJJ

 

[BoilerUP]

The 400 blows the CJ3 away in all respects.

You've obviously never flown and/or been a passenger in either airframe.

How many CJ3s have sold in the last 6 years relative to the Beechjet, again?

 

[Club ORD FO]

Wow thats a lot of airplanes. Have you Netjets folks been told what these airplanes are for? I is the fractional market in that category big enough to support that order?

But either way, congrats to Netjets, its a nice plane and a nice move by your company.

Not a good day to be a flexjet pilot however...

 

[jtf]

Gulfstream doesn't have to make special deals. They have a waiting list to buy the planes they are building.

Thats because their airplanes are the best Corporate Jets in the world.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/jet_setter_dogfight_for_wings_dY44RQtBAuBKBUDqy4VyJJ

My guess is the waiting list gets shorter and shorter as NJA gradually sells off there combined fleet of nearly 50 G-IVs, 450s, Vs, 500s and 550s. Sure many will still want the new bird, but quite often the used Gs go for more than new prices. That will change with the volume NJA will be adding to the market as the Globals come online. The NJA airframes certainly won't be going for more than new since they will have a lot of time on them, but that many will have an effect on the market. I guess I would prefer for NJA to have stayed with Gulfstream, but if they aren't willing to deal, then I guess I'll have to hope the customers like the bigger tubes and that the mx doesn't eat us up.

 

[rajflyboy]

My guess is the waiting list gets shorter and shorter as NJA gradually sells off there combined fleet of nearly 50 G-IVs, 450s, Vs, 500s and 550s. Sure many will still want the new bird, but quite often the used Gs go for more than new prices. That will change with the volume NJA will be adding to the market as the Globals come online. The NJA airframes certainly won't be going for more than new since they will have a lot of time on them, but that many will have an effect on the market. I guess I would prefer for NJA to have stayed with Gulfstream, but if they aren't willing to deal, then I guess I'll have to hope the customers like the bigger tubes and that the mx doesn't eat us up.

Its all just Business at the end of the day.

 

[Heavy Set]

Any guesses to eventual consolidated fleet plan?

First, as a CL300 driver, let me say that I love my airplane (not Flexjet or XOJet). I like almost everything about it. True that it isn't a Global, but I can vouch for the quality and performance that I experience on almost a daily basis. Other people may have different opinions. Personally, I'd be very happy to have the extra range and the extra room in the back of an XRS or Global. Too bad the Embraer 450/500 wasn't ordered - those airplanes with their sidesticks/FBW look pretty slick...

Are any of these Globals going to Netjets Europe or are they primarily NJA bound?

So, what does the "eventual" consolidated Netjets fleet look like - say in 2015-2020? Any guesses? Are we talking primarily Embraer Phenoms, XLS, Sovereigns and the Globals/XRS? What about the new Citation Xs to replace the older versions? I realize a lot can change in 5-10 years (dart to a dartboard).

 

[ultrarunner]

Other than having an even more diverse long-haul fleet for a short term, I think this is actually a pretty smart move for both Bombardier & NJA.

I'd bet Bombardier gave a steep discount to NJA to secure a sizable fleet order,

Yep, Gulfstream doesn't have to sweat having a loss leader.

Good luck with that customer support.

 

[gret]

Yep, Gulfstream doesn't have to sweat having a loss leader.

Good luck with that customer support.

I doubt that anyone is really worried about this. Not a fan of Bombardier, but they do know the business.

There has been several posts about customers buying into these airplanes, but the fact is that nobody is rushing to buy a fractional interest in an a/c. Sales are still down from the glory years and customers know the market and owning a piece of an a/c still isn't that exciting to most of them.

Owners are better business people than those running aviation companies and one has to question, who is going to pay for these new units?

 

[T Heavy]

Here's how it went down:

Sokol: We really prefer Gulfstreams sorry.
Pierre: Ok, how about this: we sell you 120 of these things and we'll throw in Flexjet for free??

Sokol: Well that's a good offer but what do we do with Fred? We don't want him and his great international and long haul experience. Or at least that is what you told everyone at Flex why he was hired. To expand your international operations and long haul market.


Don't get me wrong, these Globals were never Flexjet's. Flex was not entitled to them however it was believed at the time that they were headed in that direction. But what Flex's management did was ask all of the CURRENT OWNERS if they wanted globals. The response given "was not favorable."

Are you kidding me... One of the dumbest statements I have ever read.

If you are selling hybrids. Do you ask a Hybrid owner if they are in the market for a Peterbilt? Owner: Ummm...No if I wanted a Peterbilt I would have bought one from someone who sells them? .......Thanks for asking though.

It is easy to be a Manager. Takes effort to be a leader.
It is easy to be a Pilot. Takes effort to be an aviator.

Hallelujah. Holy s*&$. Where is the Tylenol?

 

[NJAowner]

From what I read Gulfstream (if they keep things up) will always have customers.

NJA, while having legions of very loyal owners under RTS, will shrink. New management has said a smaller company is what they want. They will get it. Owners have been leaving and will continue to leave -- and these are not the 2005-2007 "boom" owners -- these are the 1995-2002 long tern owners. 24 months from now see how many "long term" NJA owners have left.

Many NJA owners don't need the capabilities of owning a Gulfstream but like to say they own one. Much like the Acura - Mercedes analogy a few posts ago. My guess is that this will have a marketing effect for NJA.

An old mentor of mine more than once told me "be careful what you wish for .. it may come true". A more efficient NJ may be a much smaller NJ with a much less loyal owner base. To me that does not sound good for pilots.

To be consistent, NJ is now squeezing all supplier and FBOs, manufacturers, staff, pilots, and everyone else it can. Do not think for a moment that NJ is not pushing its owners to the brink as well. In the old days, many like myself would not have even entertained the though of looking elsewhere (yes -- we drank the old Koolaid which tasted quite good -- it was made with real fruit and pure sugar in good concentrations). New management feeds us artificially colored, artificially flavored, extremely diluted cool aid and thinks we do not know the difference. After all - the only reason we have Dasani water on the flights is that it was the overwhelming preference of owners surveyed (and not because it was a Coca-Coal product). No owner (other than those in the BRK world) believes that or received that survey.

None of you really know me but I have no dog in this fight. I will always have what I believe is the best aviation solution for me, my family and my colleagues. My reasons for posting here are so that some of you hear facts and opinions to help complete the "entire story" and can best position yourself for your future. I have learned many important facts about flying on this board (I know facts and flightinfo don't always go together, but they do some times) and, in return, just want to give you the opinion from the other side to help complete the picture.

Life, and companies, area a balance. The most efficiently run company with no sales staff has no one to be efficient for -- and the best sales staff with a horribly run operation, can't stay afloat for long. Balance is what is needed and, in many owners' opinions, the pendulum has swung way too far in the opposite direction. Bring it back before it is too late. All marketing courses from a $9.95 web special to Harvard Business School will tell you it is much easier to keep an existing client/customer than to get a new one. As the price increases, so does the difficulty.

 

[rigger]

From what I read Gulfstream (if they keep things up) will always have customers.

NJA, while having legions of very loyal owners under RTS, will shrink. New management has said a smaller company is what they want. They will get it. Owners have been leaving and will continue to leave -- and these are not the 2005-2007 "boom" owners -- these are the 1995-2002 long tern owners. 24 months from now see how many "long term" NJA owners have left.

Many NJA owners don't need the capabilities of owning a Gulfstream but like to say they own one. Much like the Acura - Mercedes analogy a few posts ago. My guess is that this will have a marketing effect for NJA.

An old mentor of mine more than once told me "be careful what you wish for .. it may come true". A more efficient NJ may be a much smaller NJ with a much less loyal owner base. To me that does not sound good for pilots.

To be consistent, NJ is now squeezing all supplier and FBOs, manufacturers, staff, pilots, and everyone else it can. Do not think for a moment that NJ is not pushing its owners to the brink as well. In the old days, many like myself would not have even entertained the though of looking elsewhere (yes -- we drank the old Koolaid which tasted quite good -- it was made with real fruit and pure sugar in good concentrations). New management feeds us artificially colored, artificially flavored, extremely diluted cool aid and thinks we do not know the difference. After all - the only reason we have Dasani water on the flights is that it was the overwhelming preference of owners surveyed (and not because it was a Coca-Coal product). No owner (other than those in the BRK world) believes that or received that survey.

None of you really know me but I have no dog in this fight. I will always have what I believe is the best aviation solution for me, my family and my colleagues. My reasons for posting here are so that some of you hear facts and opinions to help complete the "entire story" and can best position yourself for your future. I have learned many important facts about flying on this board (I know facts and flightinfo don't always go together, but they do some times) and, in return, just want to give you the opinion from the other side to help complete the picture.

Life, and companies, area a balance. The most efficiently run company with no sales staff has no one to be efficient for -- and the best sales staff with a horribly run operation, can't stay afloat for long. Balance is what is needed and, in many owners' opinions, the pendulum has swung way too far in the opposite direction. Bring it back before it is too late. All marketing courses from a $9.95 web special to Harvard Business School will tell you it is much easier to keep an existing client/customer than to get a new one. As the price increases, so does the difficulty.

I think you should change your name to CitationAir owner.......

 

[johnsonrod]

NJAowner brings up some great points. Were existing Netjets owners asked about which aircraft types they would like in the future? I assume the Gulfstream owners would likely want to stay in Gulfstreams. Perhaps some focus groups were put together showing the different choices (comparisons) - I think that would make sense. Of course, you can't expect all owners to be familiar with the various aircraft options - although some owners are probably very sophisticated and knowledgeable about aircraft types, many probably couldn't point out a Global or a Legacy in a lineup.

In my mind, the challenge is that Gulfstream evidently has a large order backlog for the G550/650 while Bombardier was ready to do a deal with fewer orders and better pricing. Business is business, and after the recent poor performance at Netjets, pricing probably takes priority. So, it's a tradeoff. I could be wrong, but given Bombardier's reputation for poor maintenance, I would expect Sokol to negotiate special maintenance support as part of the package.

 

[Sparse]

Have you ever been in a CJ3 ?

Obviously not. The 400 blows the CJ3 away in all respects. CJ3 is "rinky dink".

Can the 400 takeoff from ASE and go non-stop tp TEB with an average load? Can it make SMO to ORF with a good wind?