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BlueTruthPilots

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A350 said:
Yes.

Do we have issues....you bet. Do we need improvements....you bet. Do we need ALPA? Not in a million years.

This place isn't half as bad as most of you on here say it is.

A350
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Integrity is the biggest issue for me. The ELT has none. Have you been following the 3A issue? The ELT quite literally told us one thing, meant for us to rely on it, then told the judge the exact opposite. This is not integrity. And without a union, these are the people who represent us and control every aspect of our professional lives. At this point, they could tell me the sun was out and I'd reach for an umbrella. They have shown time and again that they cannot be trusted and even as we speak they are polishing the language of the next iteration of our contract. We have no say over its contents, its wording, or its intent. And they have already amply demonstrated that they don't have our best intentions in mind, only their own. I'm not looking forward to a union either, but there's no other way remaining that has a chance of obtaining even barely adequate legal protections.
 
A350 said:
Yes.

Do we have issues....you bet. Do we need improvements....you bet. Do we need ALPA? Not in a million years.

This place isn't half as bad as most of you on here say it is.

A350
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I have heard similar opinions from previous no voters in the past. Once they got screwed over by management in one form or another, they changed their tune very quickly. I flew with a guy who was an ALPA hater until he was involved in an FAA investigation. JetBlue decided he didn't need an attorney as the investigation progressed. Needless to say, he wasn't happy with the outcome as he was left to fend for himself. There are numerous stories of pilots in similar situations (medical, legal, etc) who were left out in the cold with no support whatsoever. I know some of these pilots personally. Unfortunately sometimes that's what it takes for someone to realize what a sham the DR truly is. But by then, it's too late.

You can say what you want about unions, but statistically speaking, unionized employees have better pay, better healthcare, better retirement, better work rules, and better overall job protection than non unionized employees. Feel free to look it up.
 
bri5150 said:
Since we have "truth" as the title thread, we should be truthful. Allegiant, Virgin America, Sun Country, and Frontier all have worse retirement. Spirit is only 1% higher. I think the problem is that your "peers" aren't your "peers". This isn't a knock, but you are an LCC/national, not legacy. I am not saying you shouldn't get better, but I AM saying that it isn't as bad as you are making it out to be.
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The peer set was agreed to and defined my management. "Destination" carrier. Not one of those carries is in our peer set.
 
BeachBummer said:
The peer set was agreed to and defined my management. "Destination" carrier. Not one of those carries is in our peer set.
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How come not compared to USAirways? They certaily much bigger than JB? Oh I know management did not define them as a peer ground. Funny how suddenly to make a point JB pilots say "Management" said this.
 
bri5150 said:
Since we have "truth" as the title thread, we should be truthful. Allegiant, Virgin America, Sun Country, and Frontier all have worse retirement. Spirit is only 1% higher. I think the problem is that your "peers" aren't your "peers". This isn't a knock, but you are an LCC/national, not legacy. I am not saying you shouldn't get better, but I AM saying that it isn't as bad as you are making it out to be.
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Ok lesson time...

We have an agreed upon peer set with the company that includes:

Delta
American
United
Southwest
Alaska
US Air

Any other airlines are irrelevant to the discussion. So my previous data stands.
 
pilotyip said:
How come not compared to USAirways? They certaily much bigger than JB? Oh I know management did not define them as a peer ground. Funny how suddenly to make a point JB pilots say "Management" said this.
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Us air is in the peer set... Again you fail, the point is that management makes the rules of the game then bends and breaks them.
 
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How come no comparisons then?
 
pilotyip said:
Remember the one thing unions cannot provide is job security
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This is not completely true. A union may not be able to "guarantee" job protection.......no one can guarantee that. However, a unionized employee does in fact have more job protection than a non-unionized employee. A non-unionized employee can be fired at will for absolutely no reason. This has happened numerous times here at JetBlue to both pilots and flight attendants. It is then up to the employee to hire an attorney and fight their own battle. Again.....no support. However, a unionized employee can only be fired for specific reasons as outlined in their CBA. And if fired, the unionized employee will have an attorney provided to fight their battle.

I am in no way saying a union is perfect, nor will it solve all problems. What I am saying is that a union is like having career insurance. When something goes wrong (and it will), a unionized employee has someone in their corner. A non-unionized employee has no one.
 
pilotyip said:
Couldn't open the other one, but from this onoe it looks like the JB guys got it all over the USAir guys. I know you will correct me if that is incorrect. Remember the one thing unions cannot provide is job security
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Both links worked great for me. Time to upgrade from Windows98.
 
pilotyip said:
Couldn't open the other one, but from this onoe it looks like the JB guys got it all over the USAir guys. I know you will correct me if that is incorrect. Remember the one thing unions cannot provide is job security
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I will concede that our hourly rate is better that USAirs. However they've done more to damage themselves than anyone in the last 10 years with the infighting.

When they are rolled onto the APA contract they will far exceed the earnings of a job pilot. Or for that matter if they would concede to their arbitration would be able to negotiate a far better rate.

Bottom line, they are in our peer set, twice actually, east and west.
 
pilotyip said:
Couldn't open the other one, but from this onoe it looks like the JB guys got it all over the USAir guys. I know you will correct me if that is incorrect. Remember the one thing unions cannot provide is job security
Click to expand...

With many unions you can also purchase loss of license insurance. Also a benefit not seen under JetBlues DR. Job security. Maybe not, but it is a form of career security.
 
BeachBummer said:
I will concede that our hourly rate is better that USAirs. However they've done more to damage themselves than anyone in the last 10 years with the infighting.

When they are rolled onto the APA contract they will far exceed the earnings of a job pilot. Or for that matter if they would concede to their arbitration would be able to negotiate a far better rate.

Bottom line, they are in our peer set, twice actually, east and west.
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Right so you don't compare yourselves to them because it would not support your efforts. And the position of the present day USAir can be traced to union demands that could not be meet by the flying public.

Unions do have the ability to destroy companies, so watch out what you ask for. If your purpose is a pro-airline united voice than will work with managment to trade productivity with pay and benefits changes, then there is good chance of not doing anything destructive to the future of JB. But if your union is a it stick in face organization, as seen in many of the posts here will then there may be a different outcome.

JB right now is one of the best jobs in the country and there is long list of pilots working below the JB level that would jump at the chance to be JB pilot.

BTW You guys can do whatever you want, I have no bone in this fight.
 
How are we not compairing them? did you not read they are currently in our peerset twice? They still have a better retirement contribution than we do. As well as contractual scheduling language.

Unions may be able to ruin a company, true. But managment does a much better job and faster at ruining companies, destroying employee goodwill and moral.

Hands down in this industry, unionized employees are better off than ununionized ones. Specifically pilots. jetblue may be better than most jobs out there, fine. All your buds who want to work here should be able to pretty soon. The guys here that are able are jumping ship, and the list of thuper excited blue pilots willing to work for a discount is shrinking fast.

I hope we do get what I want, because we need it.
 
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