Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

BlueTruthPilots

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Register   Log in
Cheeta, there are only a few people who know the exact number of cards collected. You are not one of them. Also, anyone who is waiting on a pay review is a sucker.
 
Holy @#$^.....are there really people out there who don't believe that the health of the company they work for DIRECTLY relates to the HEALTH of their careers and therefore the security of their FAMILIES? (Especially in a specialized, seniority based system)

Only a moron would stand behind a union, whose sole business purpose is to siphon enough money off its membership to pay bloated payscales to paper pushers while allowing its members to sign off on contracts to pay its members HALF what the paper pushers make!

I don't understand how anyone can not understand this concept. Healthy company = healthy career and therefore, money and security for the family. While there are always exceptions to this, JetBlue is not this exception.

Healthy union does not equal healthy company. YIP understands this and you guys crap all over him for it. He is a pilot just like you.....and you think that because he doesn't work for the right company that he is a second class citizen for it. Wake the F up.

A350
 
Last edited:
Yes.

Do we have issues....you bet. Do we need improvements....you bet. Do we need ALPA? Not in a million years.

This place isn't half as bad as most of you on here say it is.

A350
 
A350 said:
Holy @#$^.....are there really people out there who don't believe that the health of the company they work for DIRECTLY relates to the HEALTH of their careers and therefore the security of their FAMILIES? (Especially in a specialized, seniority based system)

Only a moron would stand behind a union, whose sole business purpose is to siphon enough money off its membership to pay bloated payscales to paper pushers while allowing its members to sign off on contracts to pay its members HALF what the paper pushers make!

I don't understand how anyone can not understand this concept. Healthy company = healthy career and therefore, money and security for the family. While there are always exceptions to this, JetBlue is not this exception.

Healthy union does not equal healthy company. YIP understands this and you guys crap all over him for it. He is a pilot just like you.....and you think that because he doesn't work for the right company that he is a second class citizen for it. Wake the F up.

A350
Click to expand...
Wow, don't find this too often on FI, supportive words for a guy who works for a dirt bag fly by night outfit and is very proud about it. Everybody at my place dreams of a job at JB and would happily take the place of anyone who wants to leave.
 
Yip:

You fly because you love it. Too many who fly have either lost that love or never really had it to begin with. And to top it off, most of them have never "wanted" for a job in the industry, their timing was impeccable. They think people who love their job are sellouts.

If they just looked around at the carnage of some people's careers, maybe they would be a little more thankful for what they have, not what they think they deserve or are entitled to.

A350
 
A350 said:
This place isn't half as bad as most of you on here say it is.

A350
Click to expand...

Let's see:

The worst health insurance
The worst retirement
Pay rates 18.3% behind our peers (starting Jan 2014)
Mediocre work rules
A "bulked out" 26 page PEA instead of a negotiated CBA

Until you have seen this company from the inside, as I have, you don't know it. Please join one of our committees and see for yourself.

We need a CBA. ALPA is the best way to get one. Any other conclusion is delusional.
 
StarChecker said:
Let's see:

The worst health insurance
The worst retirement
Pay rates 18.3% behind our peers (starting Jan 2014)
Mediocre work rules
A "bulked out" 26 page PEA instead of a negotiated CBA

Until you have seen this company from the inside, as I have, you don't know it. Please join one of our committees and see for yourself.

We need a CBA. ALPA is the best way to get one. Any other conclusion is delusional.
Click to expand...

Since we have "truth" as the title thread, we should be truthful. Allegiant, Virgin America, Sun Country, and Frontier all have worse retirement. Spirit is only 1% higher. I think the problem is that your "peers" aren't your "peers". This isn't a knock, but you are an LCC/national, not legacy. I am not saying you shouldn't get better, but I AM saying that it isn't as bad as you are making it out to be.
 
A350 said:
Yes.

Do we have issues....you bet. Do we need improvements....you bet. Do we need ALPA? Not in a million years.

This place isn't half as bad as most of you on here say it is.

A350
Click to expand...

Integrity is the biggest issue for me. The ELT has none. Have you been following the 3A issue? The ELT quite literally told us one thing, meant for us to rely on it, then told the judge the exact opposite. This is not integrity. And without a union, these are the people who represent us and control every aspect of our professional lives. At this point, they could tell me the sun was out and I'd reach for an umbrella. They have shown time and again that they cannot be trusted and even as we speak they are polishing the language of the next iteration of our contract. We have no say over its contents, its wording, or its intent. And they have already amply demonstrated that they don't have our best intentions in mind, only their own. I'm not looking forward to a union either, but there's no other way remaining that has a chance of obtaining even barely adequate legal protections.
 
A350 said:
Yes.

Do we have issues....you bet. Do we need improvements....you bet. Do we need ALPA? Not in a million years.

This place isn't half as bad as most of you on here say it is.

A350
Click to expand...

I have heard similar opinions from previous no voters in the past. Once they got screwed over by management in one form or another, they changed their tune very quickly. I flew with a guy who was an ALPA hater until he was involved in an FAA investigation. JetBlue decided he didn't need an attorney as the investigation progressed. Needless to say, he wasn't happy with the outcome as he was left to fend for himself. There are numerous stories of pilots in similar situations (medical, legal, etc) who were left out in the cold with no support whatsoever. I know some of these pilots personally. Unfortunately sometimes that's what it takes for someone to realize what a sham the DR truly is. But by then, it's too late.

You can say what you want about unions, but statistically speaking, unionized employees have better pay, better healthcare, better retirement, better work rules, and better overall job protection than non unionized employees. Feel free to look it up.
 
bri5150 said:
Since we have "truth" as the title thread, we should be truthful. Allegiant, Virgin America, Sun Country, and Frontier all have worse retirement. Spirit is only 1% higher. I think the problem is that your "peers" aren't your "peers". This isn't a knock, but you are an LCC/national, not legacy. I am not saying you shouldn't get better, but I AM saying that it isn't as bad as you are making it out to be.
Click to expand...


The peer set was agreed to and defined my management. "Destination" carrier. Not one of those carries is in our peer set.
 
BeachBummer said:
The peer set was agreed to and defined my management. "Destination" carrier. Not one of those carries is in our peer set.
Click to expand...
How come not compared to USAirways? They certaily much bigger than JB? Oh I know management did not define them as a peer ground. Funny how suddenly to make a point JB pilots say "Management" said this.
 
bri5150 said:
Since we have "truth" as the title thread, we should be truthful. Allegiant, Virgin America, Sun Country, and Frontier all have worse retirement. Spirit is only 1% higher. I think the problem is that your "peers" aren't your "peers". This isn't a knock, but you are an LCC/national, not legacy. I am not saying you shouldn't get better, but I AM saying that it isn't as bad as you are making it out to be.
Click to expand...


Ok lesson time...

We have an agreed upon peer set with the company that includes:

Delta
American
United
Southwest
Alaska
US Air

Any other airlines are irrelevant to the discussion. So my previous data stands.
 
pilotyip said:
How come not compared to USAirways? They certaily much bigger than JB? Oh I know management did not define them as a peer ground. Funny how suddenly to make a point JB pilots say "Management" said this.
Click to expand...



Us air is in the peer set... Again you fail, the point is that management makes the rules of the game then bends and breaks them.
 
Last edited:
How come no comparisons then?
 
pilotyip said:
Remember the one thing unions cannot provide is job security
Click to expand...

This is not completely true. A union may not be able to "guarantee" job protection.......no one can guarantee that. However, a unionized employee does in fact have more job protection than a non-unionized employee. A non-unionized employee can be fired at will for absolutely no reason. This has happened numerous times here at JetBlue to both pilots and flight attendants. It is then up to the employee to hire an attorney and fight their own battle. Again.....no support. However, a unionized employee can only be fired for specific reasons as outlined in their CBA. And if fired, the unionized employee will have an attorney provided to fight their battle.

I am in no way saying a union is perfect, nor will it solve all problems. What I am saying is that a union is like having career insurance. When something goes wrong (and it will), a unionized employee has someone in their corner. A non-unionized employee has no one.
 
pilotyip said:
Couldn't open the other one, but from this onoe it looks like the JB guys got it all over the USAir guys. I know you will correct me if that is incorrect. Remember the one thing unions cannot provide is job security
Click to expand...

Both links worked great for me. Time to upgrade from Windows98.
 
pilotyip said:
Couldn't open the other one, but from this onoe it looks like the JB guys got it all over the USAir guys. I know you will correct me if that is incorrect. Remember the one thing unions cannot provide is job security
Click to expand...


I will concede that our hourly rate is better that USAirs. However they've done more to damage themselves than anyone in the last 10 years with the infighting.

When they are rolled onto the APA contract they will far exceed the earnings of a job pilot. Or for that matter if they would concede to their arbitration would be able to negotiate a far better rate.

Bottom line, they are in our peer set, twice actually, east and west.
 
pilotyip said:
Couldn't open the other one, but from this onoe it looks like the JB guys got it all over the USAir guys. I know you will correct me if that is incorrect. Remember the one thing unions cannot provide is job security
Click to expand...

With many unions you can also purchase loss of license insurance. Also a benefit not seen under JetBlues DR. Job security. Maybe not, but it is a form of career security.
 
BeachBummer said:
I will concede that our hourly rate is better that USAirs. However they've done more to damage themselves than anyone in the last 10 years with the infighting.

When they are rolled onto the APA contract they will far exceed the earnings of a job pilot. Or for that matter if they would concede to their arbitration would be able to negotiate a far better rate.

Bottom line, they are in our peer set, twice actually, east and west.
Click to expand...
Right so you don't compare yourselves to them because it would not support your efforts. And the position of the present day USAir can be traced to union demands that could not be meet by the flying public.

Unions do have the ability to destroy companies, so watch out what you ask for. If your purpose is a pro-airline united voice than will work with managment to trade productivity with pay and benefits changes, then there is good chance of not doing anything destructive to the future of JB. But if your union is a it stick in face organization, as seen in many of the posts here will then there may be a different outcome.

JB right now is one of the best jobs in the country and there is long list of pilots working below the JB level that would jump at the chance to be JB pilot.

BTW You guys can do whatever you want, I have no bone in this fight.
 
How are we not compairing them? did you not read they are currently in our peerset twice? They still have a better retirement contribution than we do. As well as contractual scheduling language.

Unions may be able to ruin a company, true. But managment does a much better job and faster at ruining companies, destroying employee goodwill and moral.

Hands down in this industry, unionized employees are better off than ununionized ones. Specifically pilots. jetblue may be better than most jobs out there, fine. All your buds who want to work here should be able to pretty soon. The guys here that are able are jumping ship, and the list of thuper excited blue pilots willing to work for a discount is shrinking fast.

I hope we do get what I want, because we need it.
 
Last edited:
Last edited:

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest resources

Latest media

Carbon Cub FX-3 Shenandoah Valley
Carbon Cub at Kittyhawk
FX-3 in the backcountry
IFR Panel in a Carbon Cub FX-3
Cub-Provo-UT-c.jpg
Back
Top Bottom