binding arbitration for Delta

[Muskycat]

Really? What gives you that idea?

I thought is was the inefficient 767s that were getting retired and the DAL guys were climbing all over themselves trying to bump junior NWA guys out of their seats. And now the -9s are going away? What gives???

Inefficient 767's as opposed to the efficient 74's and DC9's with little range serving low yield markets???

"And now the -9s are going away? "

Umm, Yes! You had 160+, you now have 60+. Therefore the trend indicates that indeed the 9's are going away.

 

[jester757]

"Some people you just can't reach..."

 

[Superpilot92]

Inefficient 767's as opposed to the efficient 74's and DC9's with little range serving low yield markets???

"And now the -9s are going away? "

Umm, Yes! You had 160+, you now have 60+. Therefore the trend indicates that indeed the 9's are going away.

YOU had how many 737-200/300's ? Your argument leaves out ALOT of factors.

Fact is we currently will be holding onto 61 DC9s. They will be used for the 100 seat market that the new DAL needs to replace 50 seaters. It appears DAL wants to go after Airtran in ATL even more now that Airtran is getting beat up on. This industry is going to change and bigger planes are better right now.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

....and of course the affected DCI and Airlink pilots aren't even envited to the table.....

Ok Joe...I'll Bite....

and WHY should THEY even be at THAT table??? inquiring minds and all....

 

[Muskycat]

YOU had how many 737-200/300's ? Your argument leaves out ALOT of factors.

Fact is we currently will be holding onto 61 DC9s. They will be used for the 100 seat market that the new DAL needs to replace 50 seaters. It appears DAL wants to go after Airtran in ATL even more now that Airtran is getting beat up on. This industry is going to change and bigger planes are better right now.

Exactly, We HAD. You still have....Past vs present. Big difference.
Meaning you need to clean house.

 

[Superpilot92]

Exactly, We HAD. You still have....Past vs present. Big difference.
Meaning you need to clean house.

OR we hold the line, use these planes until a replacement is found instead of giving the scope farm away like you did with that flying. It appears currently that is the plan and lets hope so. You can try to justify all day long that you guys "cleaned house" but in reality you gave away all that flying. Lets NOT do that this time, mmmkkkkayyy!!

Times are different now and bigger planes are needed which is what puts us collectively in a better position to hold onto this flying.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Superpilot:

Did I miss something? Where's the NWA MEC's endorsement of this TA'd agreement? I'm hearing crickets....

 

[DTW320]

Superpilot:

Did I miss something?YES. Where's the NWA MEC's endorsement of this TA'd agreement? I'm hearing crickets....

Special MEC meeting 6/26 - 6/27 in MSP.

Lee Moak is there at it. You must have missed the memo...Apparently you are the only one hearing crickets.

 

[Superpilot92]

Superpilot:

Did I miss something? Where's the NWA MEC's endorsement of this TA'd agreement? I'm hearing crickets....

Its rumored to be out today after the special meetings are over, I suspect that since DALPA unanimously and quickly signed off on it that means DALPA was happy with it thus i would imagine our side feels the same. I hope that all the details will be out once both sides have signed off on it. I am curious if section 1 was restricted like the rumors are saying? We'll see.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Ok Joe...I'll Bite....

and WHY should THEY even be at THAT table??? inquiring minds and all....

Good question.

How do we know they are effected? If LOA19 and the Section 1 language is carried over, then it is status quo. If Joe knows, he knows something no one else knows....

I think he's fishing.

 

[FlyinPiker]

OR we hold the line, use these planes until a replacement is found instead of giving the scope farm away like you did with that flying. It appears currently that is the plan and lets hope so. You can try to justify all day long that you guys "cleaned house" but in reality you gave away all that flying. Lets NOT do that this time, mmmkkkkayyy!!

Times are different now and bigger planes are needed which is what puts us collectively in a better position to hold onto this flying.

And they HAD even more 9's than they have now. Compass...Mesaba 900's (who cares if you can flow down to lower paying jobs..they were still given away). That wasn't giving away flying?

 

[Superpilot92]

And they HAD even more 9's than they have now. Compass...Mesaba 900's (who cares if you can flow down to lower paying jobs..they were still given away). That wasn't giving away flying?

I dont argue that point. NWA gave away flying to but scope WAS kept to protect some of that flying unlike DAL. All the flying should have been kept by both sides. Giving up scope only outsources our jobs. Scope at NWA prevents ALL DC9s from being parked and replaced by RJ's which was my point. Lets hope thats still the case.

 

[FlyinPiker]

I dont argue that point. NWA gave away flying to but scope WAS kept to protect some of that flying unlike DAL. All the flying should have been kept by both sides. Giving up scope only outsources our jobs. Scope at NWA prevents ALL DC9s from being parked and replaced by RJ's which was my point. Lets hope thats still the case.

When scope first started being ate away at DAL the prevailing attitude of the guys at the a lot of major's seemed to be "we didn't want to fly those little things around anyway...as long as the big jets keep comin who cares!

When the NWA deal went down it was pretty much spelled out in black and white these were replacement jets.

I'm not justifying anything here because they both did major damage. Kudos to NWA for adding limits and restrictions but in the end these were all mainline jobs that were handed over to management.

Seems like we are slowly learning from each others mistakes.

 

[Muskycat]

OR we hold the line, use these planes until a replacement is found instead of giving the scope farm away like you did with that flying. It appears currently that is the plan and lets hope so. You can try to justify all day long that you guys "cleaned house" but in reality you gave away all that flying. Lets NOT do that this time, mmmkkkkayyy!!

Times are different now and bigger planes are needed which is what puts us collectively in a better position to hold onto this flying.

Yeah, we suck on scope. Not sure any major has a good scope clause.

Not sure where you think your scope is much better. Could you please explain Compass?? Enlighten me....

 

[Superpilot92]

Yeah, we suck on scope. Not sure any major has a good scope clause.

Not sure where you think your scope is much better. Could you please explain Compass?? Enlighten me....

In short our remaining DC9s cant be parked without first getting rid of 70 seaters first. Thats the jist of our scope. Compass and Mesaba were allowed "bigger" RJ's because of bankruptcy caused scope relief but it was contingent on the mainline fleet size and the flowthrough/back was designed to Heavily benefit the NWA pilots SHOULD furloughs ever take place. So while IMHO the planes should have never been allowed off the Mainline ticket they were but in a way that flying was protected in a way which wasnt a complete giveaway. Hope that helps and maybe others can add in further.

 

[Superpilot92]

When scope first started being ate away at DAL the prevailing attitude of the guys at the a lot of major's seemed to be "we didn't want to fly those little things around anyway...as long as the big jets keep comin who cares!

When the NWA deal went down it was pretty much spelled out in black and white these were replacement jets.

I'm not justifying anything here because they both did major damage. Kudos to NWA for adding limits and restrictions but in the end these were all mainline jobs that were handed over to management.

Seems like we are slowly learning from each others mistakes.

I agree and i hope you're right!!

 

[Helos2Galaxy]

NWA will furlough prior to the integration from parked DC-9s and 747-200s. Guess what part of a joint list those bubbas will end up after arbitration?

 

[JAM-BRO]

A "DC9 refugee" is a DAL junior pilot jargon(~~~^~~~) for " I am all for the good things of this merger but not the bad."

The flow down to Mesaba and Compass are in place in the new JPWA. There is also a no-furlough clause.

What exactly is a DC-9 refugee?

 

[Superpilot92]

NWA will furlough prior to the integration from parked DC-9s and 747-200s. Guess what part of a joint list those bubbas will end up after arbitration?

Please use your crystal ball for constructive things like, oh i dont know, the lottery...

Thanks for your contribution to the discussin

 

[FDJ2]

In short our remaining DC9s cant be parked without first getting rid of 70 seaters first. Thats the jist of our scope.

If NWA management parked all of the DC-9s today, how many 70 and 76 seat aircraft would get parked? How many 70-76 seaters could they operate?