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binding arbitration for Delta

  • Thread starter Thread starter 9rj9
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9rj9

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
491
Didn't anyone learn anything from USAir?


AP
Delta pilot chief spells out deal with NWA pilots
Thursday June 26, 2:28 pm ET
By Harry R. Weber, AP Business Writer Arbitrators to decide Delta-Northwest pilot integration if two sides cannot reach deal
ATLANTA (AP) -- Delta and Northwest pilots have agreed to submit to binding arbitration to help them craft an integrated seniority list if the two sides cannot reach a deal on their own within a certain timeframe.
Lee Moak, the head of Delta's pilots union, did not spell out that timeframe in a letter he sent to fellow pilots on Thursday.
However, the sides have said they hope to have an integrated seniority list by the time Atlanta-based Delta Air Lines Inc. completes its acquisition of Eagan, Minn.-based Northwest Airlines Corp. later this year. The combination is subject to regulatory and shareholder approval.
Pilots value their seniority because it determines their schedule, the aircraft they fly, and layoff protection.
Moak has said previously that pilot negotiators from Delta and Northwest were able to reach an agreement on a joint contract before the Delta-Northwest combination transaction was announced in April, but that was not finalized because they couldn't reach a deal on seniority.
On Tuesday, the two pilot groups reached a tentative agreement on a joint contract, leaving the thorny issue of seniority integration as the only major item left for them to resolve. This time, unlike before, they also agreed to a process on reaching an agreement on seniority that would seem to ensure an arrangement will be worked out one way or another.
Delta's pilot union leaders have approved the tentative contract agreement, while Northwest's pilot union leaders were scheduled to discuss the agreement Thursday. Once the agreement is approved by the leadership of both unions, it would go to the rank-and-file at both unions for separate approval.
The contract would take effect upon closing of the combination of the two airlines and would be amendable on Dec. 31, 2012.
In his letter to Delta pilots, Moak indicated that the joint contract calls for Northwest pilots to be brought up to the same pay scale as Delta pilots.
"The foundation of the joint collective bargaining agreement is the current Delta pilot working agreement," Moak said.
Northwest pilots, like Delta pilots, also will get equity in the combined company, according to a spokeswoman for Delta's pilot union.
Additional benefits for all pilots of the combined Delta include an extra 2 percent increase to the Delta pilots defined contribution plan, 1 percent in 2011 and another 1 percent in 2012. That would bring the total retirement plan contribution percentage to 14 percent.
Moak said the defined contribution plan percentage will be phased in for pre-merger Northwest pilots over the term of the agreement.
As far as the seniority integration issue, the two sides have agreed to a process that provides for a period of discussions designed to reach a negotiated agreement.
Moak said that if the two groups are unable to reach an agreement within a certain timeframe, then the two sides will enter into binding arbitration before a panel of three arbitrators.
The resulting seniority list, whether achieved through negotiations or arbitration, will be final and binding and will be incorporated into the joint collective bargaining agreement, Moak said.
The joint contract, if ratified, requires Delta to accept the results of the seniority integration process subject to certain conditions, Moak said.
The joint contract agreement covers roughly 12,000 pilots from both airlines.
The airlines do not need a joint pilot contract to combine, but it will help them integrate faster and more smoothly. They are trying to avoid the fate of US Airways Group Inc. Three years after it joined with America West Airlines, its pilots feud got so bad that pilots ousted the Air Line Pilots Association and formed a new union. They still do not have a contract covering pilots from both airlines. Pilots are the only major unionized group at Delta, while Northwest's front-line workforce is heavily unionized. Northwest's other unions will continue to represent those workers under their old contracts until votes by the combined workforce determine whether those unions stay or go.
 
Yes, but with three arbitrators it will be harder to refer to the "Roberts" decision, or the "Nicolau" ruling. Who can complain if the decision was made by Slobodan Milsosovich, Yoweri Kaguta Museveni and Nicolau Chauchescu. Impossible to spell and even more difficult to hold any one person responsible.
 
....and if one side doesn't like the "binding" arbitration...they will leave ALPA......
 
....and if one side doesn't like the "binding" arbitration...they will leave ALPA......

The NWA guys couldn't leave ALPA if they didn't like it, they aren't big enough to swing a vote that way. Now our Delta side on the other hand......I keed, I keed....;)

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Question was raised:

The trigger for Delta's scope restrictions (believed to be carried forward from LOA19) is the furlough of pre-2006 hires. Specifically if T K is furloughed the big RJ's have to be reconfigured to 70 seats.

However, we have no idea where TK will be on a merged list. NWA DC9 refugees could push him to the street, or he could stagnate if NWA's dynamic proposals are adopted.

The more I think about the contract, absent the SLI, the less it makes sense. FDJ2? Occam? ACL65? Anyone know?

I would rather do SLI, then do the contract so we know what we are dealing with.
 
It seems like an often unused form of arbitration is "last best offer arbitration"

Each group makes their best proposal to an arbitrator and the arbitrator must choose one of the proposals in its entirety.

The arbitrators decision is based on which proposal is most fair and it forces both groups to try to come as close to the middle as possible. The theory is that both groups will likely come so close that they reach an agreement before the arbitrator picks.
 
fins,

my guess is if you are junior now, you will junior after. I am not quite midway 59% on the latest list and expect to be somewhere close after.




Question was raised:

The trigger for Delta's scope restrictions (believed to be carried forward from LOA19) is the furlough of pre-2006 hires. Specifically if T K is furloughed the big RJ's have to be reconfigured to 70 seats.

However, we have no idea where TK will be on a merged list. NWA DC9 refugees could push him to the street, or he could stagnate if NWA's dynamic proposals are adopted.

The more I think about the contract, absent the SLI, the less it makes sense. FDJ2? Occam? ACL65? Anyone know?

I would rather do SLI, then do the contract so we know what we are dealing with.
 
Cobra,

My seniority isn't important in the big scheme of things, but one Delta pilot's is because he is the trigger that makes much of Delta Connection and your AirLink reconfigure their airplanes.

What I'm telling you guys is that we have the cart in front of the horse. We do not even know what this contract means (us, or management) without doing the SLI first.

The first feedback I'm hearing from Delta pilots is negative on this agreement. I don't know if this will pass.

We need to do the SLI first, then the contract, IMHO. Maybe that's been fixed in a new section 1. We'll wait and see.
 
Cobra,

My seniority isn't important in the big scheme of things, but one Delta pilot's is because he is the trigger that makes much of Delta Connection and your AirLink reconfigure their airplanes.

....and of course the affected DCI and Airlink pilots aren't even envited to the table.....
 
binding arbitration is great! Just ask an Alaska pilot how great it worked.

The two pilot groups must submit to binding arbitration as a result of ALPA merger policy. But that is as a last result.

Good luck because binding arbitration is arbitrary.
 
....and of course the affected DCI and Airlink pilots aren't even envited to the table.....


You made your choice to stay where you are at. being at a regional will always mean you are a Contract thus you arent in the mix. If you think its a problem you could have always moved on and been part of the "solution" but instead you choose to just complain about the injustices you face on via FI. Now carry on with you Union bashing were waiting.:cool:
 
You made your choice to stay where you are at. being at a regional will always mean you are a Contract thus you arent in the mix. If you think its a problem you could have always moved on and been part of the "solution" but instead you choose to just complain about the injustices you face on via FI. Now carry on with you Union bashing were waiting.:cool:

I'll just hold ALPA to it's DFR responsibilities while you "real" pilots fight over "career expectations" and seniority lists.....

Carry on with the merger....
 
Cobra,

My seniority isn't important in the big scheme of things, but one Delta pilot's is because he is the trigger that makes much of Delta Connection and your AirLink reconfigure their airplanes.

What I'm telling you guys is that we have the cart in front of the horse. We do not even know what this contract means (us, or management) without doing the SLI first.

The first feedback I'm hearing from Delta pilots is negative on this agreement. I don't know if this will pass.

We need to do the SLI first, then the contract, IMHO. Maybe that's been fixed in a new section 1. We'll wait and see.


Both MECs apparently have been shown what happens with, and what happens without, a merged company. My guess is that you will be given a somewhat-in-depth glimpse during roadshows. My guess also is that without a merged company, and soon, it will not be a pretty picture. I would also guess that it will be uglier near term for one side, and uglier long term for the other.

Which will bring them to the order of JPWA and the SLI. I believe that both MEcs believe that this will undoubtedly turn into a USAIR/AWA fiasco should the SLI come first. It would, of course, be binding. It would also be very unlikely that this SLI would be hammered out prior to the DCC--which triggers ALPA merger policy. During ALPA merger policy, a list comes first, but is not in force until a joint PWA is negotiated AND, a very big AND, ratified by both pilot groups. This is the point where the timeline skewed in the AWA/USAir circus. USAir didn't like the list, and they were just going to NOT ratify the joint PWA--which was also going to be a while due to their management team--EVER. That is, until the list was redone wink, wink, nod, nod. In the meantime, a grass roots effort was successfully staged, and ALPA voted off the property. That is exactly where all parties are afraid this will head in the event of triggering ALPA merger policy. Thus, the inherent flaw in ALPA merger policy--well one of them anyway. One group can simply hold the whole thing hostage indefinitely, legally, non-scabbily, or whatever the name du-jour is. Meanwhile, efficiencies are not realized, little acronyms like BOB spring up and are implemented, and basically both companies go down in flames. NWA has already decided, and apparently Delta agrees, that the unknown is better, with a better PWA, than the known abortion that is AWA/USAir.

Of course, I could be wrong. But IMO, this thing is headed to arbitration--if the Delta pilots don't vote it down. The NWA guys will ratify overwhelmingly. They are getting exactly what they want--great raises and arbitration.
 
Puff,

Excellent post, Sir.

We truly will have to look at this JPWA agreement carefully. IF scope was written to deal with the DC9 refugees THEN it would be easy to support.

Both airlines' pilots have been through career hell with the bankruptcies. It would be hard to scare them. I hope the real sales pitch is in the quality of the plans we have made to deal with the inevitable fleet rationalization.

Along those lines, Comair pilots are being told that the growth switch has been turned off the in the last 24 hours and that Mesaba and Compass will grow. Also, it seems that Mesaba, Compass and Comair's back office functions are being combined.
 
They are getting exactly what they want--great raises and arbitration.

NALPA has said numerous times that they want to reach a joint SLI that is agreed upon by both sides. The only way either side wants arbitration is if a joint SLI cant be worked out quickly, then and only then has both sides it would pursue expedited arbitration. The point is we need to make sure this isnt a USair mess and we need the efficiencies the merger will provide in order to be a successful New DAL which is in ALL of our best interests. Here's to hoping cooler heads prevail in the SLI just as they did for the TA.:beer:
 
What exactly is a DC-9 refugee?

Its a DAL Fear grenade term ;). As of right now we are keeping more DC9s then we originally were so if RA's plan is true then RJs will get parked and the DC9s will cover that flying. Fins is right though about scope, it is a big deal especially in these economic times. If UAL had a thorough Scope language than their pilots might not be hitting the streets since the increased RJ's would be mainline aircraft.

Any idea when we will get an update from the MEC in regards to the TA?
 
....and of course the affected DCI and Airlink pilots aren't even envited to the table.....
Joe, enjoy the fact you are not at this table. You benefit from not being here & keep potential causes of action open.

It looks to me like NWA's DC9 flying will be outsourced and mainline is too focused on equity pay outs and raises to focus on their own job protections.

Whether Mesaba, Compass, Comair, or some version of your SkyWest gets the flying isn't decided here. Best to get on the phone with Jerry.

Probably be best to keep your powder dry and just wait for all of your alleged enemies to simply shoot eachother. Then you can pick up all the flying they forgot was important.
 
Have you seen the TA? Does it lift the restriction of anything over 70 or is it 76 will be flown by dal pilots? If no scope is relaxed there will eventually be something in between the 76 seaters (capped at 255 I believe) and the 88/319s. Too large of a gap. The replacement may not be here manana but as long as WE don't bend, they will eventually have to order something and we will be flying it.




Joe, enjoy the fact you are not at this table. You benefit from not being here & keep potential causes of action open.

It looks to me like NWA's DC9 flying will be outsourced and mainline is too focused on equity pay outs and raises to focus on their own job protections.

Whether Mesaba, Compass, Comair, or some version of your SkyWest gets the flying isn't decided here. Best to get on the phone with Jerry.

Probably be best to keep your powder dry and just wait for all of your alleged enemies to simply shoot eachother. Then you can pick up all the flying they forgot was important.
 
It looks to me like NWA's DC9 flying will be outsourced .....

Really? What gives you that idea?

I thought is was the inefficient 767s that were getting retired and the DAL guys were climbing all over themselves trying to bump junior NWA guys out of their seats. And now the -9s are going away? What gives???
 

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