binding arbitration for Delta

[Flyer1015]

Speaking of which, does anybody have a document that describes (in thorough detail) the flowthrough and flowback agreement at Compass?

 

[PCL_128]

At the very least, Compass and Mesaba should have been invited to that table.

Holy crap, not another JoeyMerchant! And this one is a friend of mine! Don't drink the RJDC kool-aid, buddy.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Holy crap, not another JoeyMerchant! And this one is a friend of mine! Don't drink the RJDC kool-aid, buddy.

Regional pilots are starting to figure out the ponzi scheme that has been pulled on them.....They aren't going to be so quick to rubberstamp Herndons BS this time....

The Compass pilots don't even have their own MEC.....

 

[Flyer1015]

Holy crap, not another JoeyMerchant! And this one is a friend of mine! Don't drink the RJDC kool-aid, buddy.

I'm no RJDC supporter, and haven't drunk any kool-aid in a while.

That said, because of the complex flowthrough and flowback issues existing at Compass and Mesaba, it's my opinion that they should have been there as well.

Eagle guys know all about flowthrough and flowbacks, and many more flowbacks than flowthroughs. If there's a lesson to be learned from the Eagle situation, is that Compass and Mesaba should be there at that table.

 

[PCL_128]

I'm no RJDC supporter, and haven't drunk any kool-aid in a while.

You're walking a fine line....

That said, because of the complex flowthrough and flowback issues existing at Compass and Mesaba, it's my opinion that they should have been there as well.

Let me get this straight: even though the Compass and Mesaba pilots already have flow-through agreements, and even though those agreements aren't going to be altered (merely transferred over to the combined company, like every other contractual obligation), you still think they should have a seat at the table? Please tell me I'm misunderstanding you.

Eagle guys know all about flowthrough and flowbacks, and many more flowbacks than flowthroughs. If there's a lesson to be learned from the Eagle situation, is that Compass and Mesaba should be there at that table.

If there's a lesson to be learned from the Eagle situation, it's that you should get the hell out of the commuters as quickly as possible and forget the idea of making a career from a damned sub-contractor. Most of those senior Eagle guys could be furlough-safe at the majors right now if they had left when they had the chance, but instead, they're waiting to find out if AMR manages to sell off their company and cuts their flying. Don't be a regional lifer!

 

[~~~^~~~]

PCL:

Why'd you "borrow" my avitar from my RJDC days? Just curious, seeing as how you hated the whole "don't tread on me" thing. Irony? Just curious.

 

[PCL_128]

PCL:

Why'd you "borrow" my avitar from my RJDC days? Just curious, seeing as how you hated the whole "don't tread on me" thing. Irony? Just curious.

Well, it isn't really "yours." Unless you around back in the 1700s, anyway. You used it as a message to ALPA against your falsely perceived "second-class citizen" status within the Association. I use it as a message to management.

 

[~~~^~~~]

you still think they should have a seat at the table?

If there's a lesson to be learned from the Eagle situation, it's that you should get the hell out of the commuters as quickly as possible and forget the idea of making a career from a damned sub-contractor.

Don't be a regional lifer!

PCL, wouldn't it be better if the pilots who fly more than half of Delta's block hours had a seat at the table? Maybe we could come up with some solution so that the majority of jobs out there were not at "a dammed sub-contractor."

Lets end "dammed sub-contractors." (I like that term)

Of course, they'd get eaten. But that's OK.

 

[PCL_128]

PCL, wouldn't it be better if the pilots who fly more than half of Delta's block hours had a seat at the table? Maybe we could come up with some solution so that the majority of jobs out there were not at "a dammed sub-contractor."

You know I agree with you on bringing everybody under a single list, Fins, but that doesn't involve allowing the regionals to negotiate directly with mainline management. The regional pilots need to negotiate with their own management. If anyone is to negotiate with mainline management, it needs to be the mainline MEC. I sincerely hope that your MEC comes to its senses and makes capturing back scope a top priority, including a single list, but it won't involve the regional guys doing the negotiating directly with Delta management.

 

[Flyer1015]

Let me get this straight: even though the Compass and Mesaba pilots already have flow-through agreements, and even though those agreements aren't going to be altered (merely transferred over to the combined company, like every other contractual obligation), you still think they should have a seat at the table? Please tell me I'm misunderstanding you.

To clarify, I don't mean have a 'seat' at the table like AWAC has a seat on the board with US Airways. I simply meant a seat in attendance at that meeting. There's a huge difference between the two.

If there's a lesson to be learned from the Eagle situation, it's that you should get the hell out of the commuters as quickly as possible and forget the idea of making a career from a damned sub-contractor. Most of those senior Eagle guys could be furlough-safe at the majors right now if they had left when they had the chance, but instead, they're waiting to find out if AMR manages to sell off their company and cuts their flying. Don't be a regional lifer!

Careful, ya need to know the story of the Eagle flowthrough and flowback.

Ask any Eagle guy that has been around for a while. Don't quote me on this number exactly, but only about 115 ever flowed up from Eagle to AA. MANY more wanted to go, had the number, but didn't get to go. Compass and Mesaba at least have a contractual statement that Compass/Mesaba flowthroughs must be taken BEFORE street new-hires. Eagle didn't have that.

And AMR became 'smart.' They figured, why flow Eagle folks up? That's two training events. One, Eagle guy leaves to AA, and two, Eagle FO upgrades to Eagle Captain. Instead, AMR chose to hire mostly of the street into AA seats... which is just one training event.

AMR saved their dollar. The Eagle flowthrough never really worked. 115 or so is not a great number. Most Eagle guys would say that if you ever wanted to work at American Airlines, the last place you should come to is Eagle.

So when you say 'they should have left when they had the chance' , you have to be careful.

And of course, the Eagle flowbacks came hard. Initially, people thought that only as many as flowed up could end up flowing back. But no, it was decided that as many could flowback as Eagle pilots that held AA numbers. And that was over 600! So, you had AA guys and TWA guys flow back to Eagle, and the mess ensued.

115 flowed up, more wanted to flow but couldn't because AMR is AMRon. Over 600 flowed back and the Eagle pilots got screwed.

Lessons to be learned there. At this point, Compass and Mesaba NEEDS to be in attendance to these sorts of Delta/NWA meetings. It affects everyone.... mainline potential flowbacks, and flowthroughs.

But if history is any lesson, many more flowbacks than flowthroughs. So get those CP and XJ guys sitting in on these meetings with the big Delta.