binding arbitration for Delta

[Flyer1015]

Agreed. Unfortunately, it appears that your MECs weren't interested in such a scenario. "Those that fail to learn from history...."

Right, like how APA offered Eagle ALPA to staple Eagle to the bottom of the seniority list right after 9/11. So the ~ 3000 or so layoffs would have all virtually Eagle guys.

Guess who gave who the finger?

 

[~~~^~~~]

I'm guessing you are referring to Midwest. I have heard the same rumors.

Nope.

 

[clippyrip]

I've heard Alaska Airlines....they own the west coast. They fill in Deltas missing link and might tie into why they are giving Horizon the shaft these days.

 

[Superpilot92]

Nope.

Hawaiian :nuts:

 

[clippyrip]

Nope.

You can't set us up and not deliver, who you think?

 

[Fly4hire]

DAL will be buying UAUA's Pacific assets that will be fragmented shortly. The rush to get the SLI and DCC done is to take advantage of capital that will become available when the deal is done. Moak is accepting binding arbitration because the gains for everyone on the combined list will be far greater than the downside of dragging the SLI out and losing the opportunity of those routes to a competitor

 

[JonnyKnoxville]

Super92:

Flows don't work well. Consider how Nicolau's seniority ruling effected the US Air pilots who flowed to Mid Atlantic.

Compass is a virtual copy of Mid Atlantic's bilateral flow.

Pilot Disadvantages from a flow:

• Pilots sold a promise now that the Company might not keep in the future.
• Usually pay rates are lower to offset the mainline career promise (pay now for something I might not get)
• Pilot longevity is destroyed as the pilot crosses certificates
• ALPA has a conflicting duty of representation
• Pilots separated by an arbitrary line which can effect seniority integration and recall rights **

Consider the alternative, One list

• Pilots know they have a number
• Pilots know their longevity
• There are no "rights" that give rise to an RJDC type lawsuit - everyone is treated equally by their union
• Scope includes pilots on the list. Company can buy what they want and they WILL BE FLOWN BY MAINLINE PILOTS
• Mainline flying grows
• Mainline can buy the best airplane for the market and use it to kick the competition's butt. Why do you think Delta has so many CRJ200's? It wasn't because they were the best choice.

PCL, do you disagree Sir?

** Lets say you and I flow to Compass. The Delta buys Hawaiian. Our seniority would be an afterthought to Hawaiian's 717 drivers. Heck, we are not even on the "property" at Compass. But, you can hold 320, or 757, now. Fair?

One list is a whole lot cleaner. If you don't know who's been winning the scope war, look out the window.

Scope out RJ's and I would never admit it, but we want the same thing. The only way we are going to win is to scope them IN!

Excellent post! ONE LIST IS THE ONLY ANSWER. A staple for the Compass, Comair, and Mesaba would work well for most at all of the pilot groups involved.

 

[slinky]

You can't set us up and not deliver, who you think?

I remember hearing Whitehurst say, before he quit, that Hawaiian was attractive because they have:
14 767-300ER:

4 767-300:

11 717:

Hawaiian to replace 767 fleet with six A350-800s and six A330-200s
Initial A330-200 delivery in 2012; A350-800 in 2017

The NW guys already are good at flying the A330 and I have heard that RA likes that airframe. The 14 ER's are worth their weight in gold.

 

[ttuite]

Excellent post! ONE LIST IS THE ONLY ANSWER. A staple for the Compass, Comair, and Mesaba would work well for most at all of the pilot groups involved.

Why lump Comair and Mesaba into the same mixer as Compass. The Compass situation is very much different than the other two. Compass employees are under much higher risk. With greater risk comes greater reward. Knowing that there is a high likelyhood of my being furloughed by the end of the year because of flow down (it will be my 3rd furlough in 1 year) I would be offended if Comair or Mesaba with their non-flow down rules were included in a staple and ended up very much senior to me.

 

[MJ42]

Why lump Comair and Mesaba into the same mixer as Compass. The Compass situation is very much different than the other two. Compass employees are under much higher risk. With greater risk comes greater reward. Knowing that there is a high likelyhood of my being furloughed by the end of the year because of flow down (it will be my 3rd furlough in 1 year) I would be offended if Comair or Mesaba with their non-flow down rules were included in a staple and ended up very much senior to me.

I agree. Also, CPZ didn't hire 300 hour wonders. A majority of the new hires at CPZ were VERY experienced for a regional airline. I hope CPZ can be added to the SLI.

 

[Deadend]

CPZ on the bottom of the list. Now way anyone at DAL/NWA would lose any spots to a Compass pilot.

 

[MJ42]

CPZ on the bottom of the list. Now way anyone at DAL/NWA would lose any spots to a Compass pilot.

Of course, maybe I wasn't clear. Bottom of the list, but included in the list.

 

[clippyrip]

The NW guys already are good at flying the A330 and I have heard that RA likes that airframe.

True! NWA is no stranger to flying out of HNL either. Let's go HNL! If that came to fruition maybe that would ease the minds of some of those that think every pilot at NWA wants to live in ATL.

I for one would love to live in ATL...only if mountains grew out of the swamps and snow flew in the winter. Then I could call that place home. My snow machine does not do so well in the swamps.

This is what one of our Northern bases has to offer.....

http://youtube.com/watch?v=d7z_nGhcV_I

 

[JoeMerchant]

I agree. Also, CPZ didn't hire 300 hour wonders. A majority of the new hires at CPZ were VERY experienced for a regional airline. I hope CPZ can be added to the SLI.

Just Compass....what about Mesaba and CMR? They are wholly owned also.....

 

[~~~^~~~]

One MEC, bilateral flow, concurrent seniority already resolved at Compass.

Same isn't true for Mesaba and Comair.

Still the chances of this happening are about the same as the chances for a leftover meatball sandwich at a Teamster's meeting.

 

[JoeMerchant]

One MEC, bilateral flow, concurrent seniority already resolved at Compass.

Same isn't true for Mesaba and Comair.

Still the chances of this happening are about the same as the chances for a leftover meatball sandwich at a Teamster's meeting.

I see another DFR lawsuit if one wholly owned regional is integrated while the other two aren't....Time for the Mesaba and CMR MECs to file another PID....Here we go again....

 

[knightflyer]

I see another DFR lawsuit if one wholly owned regional is integrated while the other two aren't....Time for the Mesaba and CMR MECs to file another PID....Here we go again....

Why the Lawsuit? An agreement is just that...an agreement/contract /flowthrough/whatever. If the two sides for example: Comair and Delta do not agree on a contract or agreement then why should there be an automatic flowthrough. If there is an agreement and that agreement gets rolled into something else, then so be it.
I would not call a flowthrough advantagous depending on what side of the fence your on, but they are what they are. The TWO sides sign off on the deal and BAMM...flowthrough...and flowback.

 

[PCL_128]

Now you're talking like management.

Well, that's because I'm explaining exactly how this happened. When you give management a loophole, then they're going to use it. That's their job. That's why we need unions to protect ourselves. In this case, the union didn't do a very good job of crafting adequate contract language. As a PCL pilot, you should be very familiar with this concept: any contract language that says "except when operationally necessary..., unless circumstances beyond the company's control...., to the greatest extent possible...., etc...." is completely useless. This language will always be torn apart and rendered impotent. If they wanted 1 for 3 on all class dates, then they shouldn't have agreed to the gaping loophole that even Mr. Magoo could have spotted from ten miles away.

*We still friends though.

As long as you don't send any money to Joey's favorite litigious friends, we're cool.

 

[PCL_128]

I see another DFR lawsuit

I'd imagine that you see DFR lawsuits everywhere you turn. You're obsessed with them. It's really quite pathetic. Learn how to get what you want without resorting to such pathetic tactics.

 

[Superpilot92]

I'd imagine that you see DFR lawsuits everywhere you turn. You're obsessed with them. It's really quite pathetic. Learn how to get what you want without resorting to such pathetic tactics.

Dont expect much from Joe, he is just waiting for a free ride.