Big League Beatdown of AFA Cadink

[Hagar17]

I can tell you with 100% certainty that did not happen. He got a little very minor paperwork, but not grounded.

Outstanding. Thank you for the info.

I posted this to see what the reaction was in the field, especially the fighter community. It's about what I expected, with 75% of my buds thinking the Eagle dude was out of line and the other quarter thinking he was right on. Personally, I think the Eagle dude was right for blowing up the AFA cadet old school, just not Cc'ing 40 of his buds. Praise in public, criticize in private.

I especially liked the part about the maintenance guys that work their asses off and can't get a ride in an F-15E. The sense of entitlement these days among junior officers (let alone an AFA cadet!) is amazing.

My $.02. Thanks for yours.

Hag

 

[Occam's Razor]

The guy that wrote that was my assigned IP when I was going through white jet T-38s. Good dude, actually. Someone I'd absolutely want to fly with when the shooting starts.

Glad to hear it. Tactical proficiency is important, as is good rapport with your peers. But correct me if I'm wrong here...his e-mail wasn't a tactical situation, and he wasn't dealing with a peer, was he?

Say what you want about the letter -- unprofessional, rude, obnoxious -- because it is all those things. BUT (unlike the too-scared-to-do-anything-because-it-might-jeporadize-my-career crowd) he talked about the White Elephant in the room. That letter is posted in fighter squadron doofer books worldwide.

Perfect! The leadership prinicple of praising in public and criticizing in private takes a back seat to venting in a (your terms here) unprofessional, rude, and obnoxious manner. If this guy's internal Master Arm switch is safety-wired to the ARMED position...he's got issues, regardless of how much fun he is in the cockpit.

The Wing Commander may be offering this kid a ride in one of his jets, but he's going to be hard pressed to find a pilot who isn't going to find a maintenance problem with the jet prior to taxi which forces a ground abort.

I thought integrity was another leadership trait officers were supposed to have. Are you suggesting that Air Force officers would disobey an order to take this kid flying by lying about an aircraft malfunction? Is there a specific list of lawful orders from their commanders that Air Force officers are taught to ignore or disobey? Could you post a copy of them?

When you're in the business of killing people with airplanes for a living, being PC isn't at the top of the priority list. We're not in the business of being polite.

Puh-leeze! Major _____ was not on a mission to kill people when he sat at his keyboard and typed-out that letter. If he is incapable of determining the proper situations to act like a "warrior" and the proper times to act like an officer and a leader...then I feel sorry for his children.

I'm sure the people who want everyone in the military to be "warrior monks" (to steal a Tommy Franks term) hates it, though. In the age of a generation of "entitlement kids", a little rudder correction like that letter is what is sometimes needed to remind an AFA cadet where he sits on the food chain. Again, it wasn't the most tactful way of performing that rudder correction, but it made the point.

BS! What it taught a future leader of warriors is this: When somebody subordinate to you is out-of-line, the best leadership method to employ is public ridcule.

A "cease and desist" response, directed to the cadet, and no one else, would have been an appropriate response.

 

[Future SNA]

Every crowd has one, the only problem is I try not to forget where I came from, as I truly imagine the O-4 year old was probably in very similar shoes one day. But, not knowing any of the other facts, the simple thing is tact goes a long way.

 

[737ski]

C3C had some big nads asking for a ride in an F-15E in the first place--why not a ride in a C-130, C-5, C-17, or KC-135--hmmm, not glamorous enough. Guess things have changed since my time, cell phones vs. waiting 3 months & earning the right to use the pay phone for 5 minutes... Maybe a sense of entitlement has swept across the terrazzo.

I look down & see that my shoes are now brown...

 

[stonewall]

Well, it took me one day to break my resolution to stop posting on FI, but here's my .02.

The Major was way the hell out of line. He probably quaffed a couple before writing it, thought it was funny, and thought he was being a bad ass.

I was the Chief of Scheduling in a fighter squadron. We did not get a thousand letters asking for rides, contrary to what a previous poster stated. We did, however, get a few requests each year around the holidays and the summer from both USAFA and ROTC cadets who were home and wanted to inquire about rides. I guarantee you several upperclass cadets in this dudes squadron told him it was okay and he should try it out if he was going to be close to SJ. We accomodated some cadets when we could, and politely told the others "no-go" when we couldn't. Easy enough. I never thought about blasting any of the cadets.

As far as "earning" a ride, that's a bunch of horses***. I've been in squadrons that have given rides to politicians and celebrities that have done zero to "earn" a ride. I've also given several incentive rides to enlisted dudes over the years for a number of dubious awards, and just two weeks ago gave a ride to a captain in the Med Grp whose claim to fame seemed to be "senior female in squadron." A cadet who asks for a FAMILIARIZATION ride vs an incentive ride (a distinction our frustrated Major seems to not understand) had done nothing wrong. He's just trying to see what his future might be all about.

Scoreboard, this guy should not be your hero. His actions were an embarrasment to the Air Force. Out of all the fighter bros I've talked to about this, both AD and Guard, ROTC and USAFA and OTS, not ONE thinks this guys actions were acceptable. Apparently, his commander didn't think so, either. Feel free to call of us pussies.

As far StrikeEagle guys "faking" a GAB during this cadet's ride, that shouldn't be too hard. Last time I checked, the 4th FW had about a 30% MX delivery rate. My last two 4vX's with the 4th FW turned into 4v2's after step. Major X should talk to someone about getting more jets in the air before he talks about who should and shouldn't get rides.

Anyway, this is old news and it looks like the right thing happened. I'm glad this Major didn't get an LOR, but I'm also glad he got slapped a bit. He was old enough to know better.

 

[scoreboard]

Geesh, you guys are pansies.

 

[stonewall]

Go have sex with your crew chief.

 

[737ski]

"Earning" a ride is not the right word. If you get the opportunity, you better sell your weapon system if you fly with these folks or you've done yourself/your country/your AF a dis-service. I've flown a lot of politicians/celebs & believe me, you better sell it or might lose it.

Back on subject, an AF cadet doesn't have to be motivated to fly, ask me...

C3C needs to concentrate on graduating & getting through UPT. Baby steps, my friend...

 

[FNG_that's me]

So many people here have explained in a calm manner why this cadet's request might be unreasonable. Why could the Major not camly explain it that way in his e-mail.

Dear C3C XXX,

We appreciate you enthusiasm, but we are back-logged with other requests for rides and don't even have enough empty seats to give incentive rides to our own maint personnel. You're welcome to come down to the squadron and have a look at how our operations run.

R/MAJ Nice Guy

Was that so hard? Is there that much lack of leadership/mentoring in today's airforce that this not only happens, but gets strongly defended after the fact. I understand the sentiment of annoyance, but to beat down a cadet who is enthusiastic about his future career seems senseless.

 

[stonewall]

"Earning" a ride is not the right word. If you get the opportunity, you better sell your weapon system if you fly with these folks or you've done yourself/your country/your AF a dis-service. I've flown a lot of politicians/celebs & believe me, you better sell it or might lose it.

Back on subject, an AF cadet doesn't have to be motivated to fly, ask me...

C3C needs to concentrate on graduating & getting through UPT. Baby steps, my friend...

I agree with your comments. PR is good for all of us. As for the cadet, I don't think he or anyone said he needed this ride for motivation. I just take exception with Major X thinking he's qualified to judge who has and has not "earned" an F-15E ride.

Asking for, and possibly getting, a fighter ride while home on leave is not mutually exclusive with concentrating on graduating and getting to, and then through, UPT.