Big League Beatdown of AFA Cadink

[scoreboard]

Magnum, your right, I apologize, I forgot this is the age of the sensitive new age pilot. Let me also add:

,

There is no "procedure" or chain of command to go home on leave and ask a local squadron for a ride. Yes there is, call your numbered Air Force for an explanation. Like I said, I was the chief of scheduling in a fighter squadron 6 years ago and we got many calls like this. Only 6 years ago, well, at the MAJCOM and AF level, we recieved thousands. 20 years ago when I was chief of scheduling, I'll admit, we only received two or three a week. If this is your reference point, I again apologize for making it seem unreal to your point of view.

Poor 2LTs couldn't handle a C3C and went VFR direct to an O-4. Like it's been pointed out, they already tried the nice way, now they tried the tough love way. What was your comment about the chain of command again? Follow it, the C3C didn't. If the squadron scheduler had, that C3C would probably be walking lots of straight lines during lunch.


I was gunning Eagles long before you even knew what SNAP meant. You got me smiling on this one, unless you were flying in diapers, I don't think you were gunning an Eagle while I was around... Speaking of diapers, yours appear to be on a little tight right now...

.
I'll take his side every time in the air (when his chariot actually gets airborne), Are we back to flying chariots now?? Also, a fam ride is not a joy ride. Do you not know the difference between a FAM ride and an incentive ride, either? Uh, yes, seeing as I helped staff that reg about 12 years ago...[/quote]

In closing, sorry i offended you, good day.

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

That MAJ and LT scheduler and all their friends on the CC list make the entire fighter community look like a bunch of jackasses. They can play crud and drink jeremiah weed and jerk each other off all day for all I care, they're a bunch of F'ing tools and I hope to god everyone highlights his name and passes it to the CP at their airline so in a year when he wants to cross over to the customer service industry and has to deal with people his app will get tossed in the garbage. What a loser. I don't know what's worse, the prick Major or all the asskissing email responses back to the cadet. The entire thing makes me embarrased to be in the Air Force. FUBIJAR

This is the best post on this thread! The major will probably end up at FDX with all his other fighter buds and ding up an MD-11 in a few years.

 

[Purpled]

Letting your kid grow up to fly EA-6's...now THAT'S child abuse.

Prowlers make me hungry. Mmmmmm, drumstick!

 

[stonewall]

Magnum, your right, I apologize, I forgot this is the age of the sensitive new age pilot. Let me also add:

In closing, sorry i offended you, good day.

That post was filled with gross hyperbole. You did not receive thousands of cadet requests at the NAF level. Further, if there is guidance (which I doubt) show it to me. This has been done since I was a cadet, pops. Further, any reg that you "staffed" (can't believe you admitted that one), is likely well out of date by now.

I didn't say I was gunning eagles in YOUR day...I likely wasn't walking the earth yet. I said I was doing it since before you knew what...ahh, never mind. I guess the mind does slow down in the later years. And, speaking of diapers, you might want to stock up on the Depends. If your mind is this weak already, your bladder can't be far behind.

Rest easy...you didn't "offend" me at all. Neither did the Major in question. Cause me to question your faculties, yes. Offend me, no.

 

[FlyingSkip]

Wow. If there was ever a time when I was glad I went to Navy and flew in the Marines instead of going to USAFA and flying for the AF, this thread is it...oh wait. Yeah, pretty much EVERY time I came up against AF discipline, leadership, esprit de corps or professional standards I felt that way, so this is just one more example...

Flame on, but for a grown man to display his childishness to someone who can't "fight back" in this way was WAY deserving of some serious "leadership re-schooling". Maybe my memory fades with time, but I can't IMAGINE a Marine officer taking the time to write such a piece of crap email in the midst of his busy day; can't IMAGINE him/her having the judgement lapse to send it even if it was written; and can't IMAGINE anyone seeing this as anything but a negative for the future of themselves personally, the unit where they work or the service whose uniform they wear.

Anyone who doesn't realize that everything they do in this day and age is under tremendous scrutiny is an idiot and deserves to be treated as such. PC? The guts to talk about the White Elephant in the room? A hero in squadrons around the world? Man, you guys really ARE blind to the world you live in and how people view the military culture---beware the culture shock when you realize not everybody likes you, not everybody thinks you're the Ace of the Base, and most people think you're an egostistical b**tard! Give them the ammunition that a story like this provides, and you cut yourself off at the knees a little more every day... Sheesh. Grow up, smarten up and get a clue about what "responsibility" means---in every aspect of serving your country and earning that paycheck. Major Dumba**, this means you.

 

[stonewall]

Flame on, but for a grown man to display his childishness to someone who can't "fight back" in this way was WAY deserving of some serious "leadership re-schooling". Maybe my memory fades with time, but I can't IMAGINE a Marine officer taking the time to write such a piece of crap email in the midst of his busy day; can't IMAGINE him/her having the judgement lapse to send it even if it was written; and can't IMAGINE anyone seeing this as anything but a negative for the future of themselves personally, the unit where they work or the service whose uniform they wear.

Skip, most of us feel the same way. Don't smear the whole USAF officer/pilot corp because a few guys on this one message board support this guy's actions.

 

[SB Diver]

"Letting your kid grow up to fly EA-6's...now THAT'S child abuse."

Oh Magnum, another one of your 'My daddy can beat up your daddy' arguments. Hmmm, very impressive. :crying:

 

[Scrapdog]

"Letting your kid grow up to fly EA-6's...now THAT'S child abuse."

Oh Magnum, another one of your 'My daddy can beat up your daddy' arguments. Hmmm, very impressive. :crying:

Oh SB...he was only kidding...I'm sure the family truckster is fun to fly...hey, at least you got 3 other dudes in there you can BS with about who gets the hot bunk first right?

 

[Purpled]

Oh SB...he was only kidding...I'm sure the family truckster is fun to fly...hey, at least you got 3 other dudes in there you can BS with about who gets the hot bunk first right?

Mmmmm, hot racking.

http://www.wakinupwiththewolf.com/timages/page/media/navy_spot.mp3

 

[stonewall]

"Letting your kid grow up to fly EA-6's...now THAT'S child abuse."

Oh Magnum, another one of your 'My daddy can beat up your daddy' arguments. Hmmm, very impressive. :crying:

Guess someone can't take a joke. You shouldn't be so sensitive about flying Prowlers. Be proud of it SB, though it may be difficult at times!


And my old man probably could beat up your old man.

 

[swa737-700]

You make that suggestion based on reading one email?

The process will sort itself out without the kind of black listing you're suggesting...this is why applicants have internal references that they have personally flown with and are interviewed in person.

Mudeagle,
that is a fair statement.

 

[SB Diver]

It's ok Magnum, seeing your tirades crack me up all the time (thus my wisecracks at your many overt insecurities!). But don't worry, I'm sure it will just be a day or two before you get over this and are trying to lock horns over another overly sensitive military issue here at fi. Enjoy!

 

[AlbieF15]

Couple of quick points...

I thought said Major was a bit of dick to bash a kid who (in his own mind) was showing drive and iniative. Had I been the DO, I might have mentioned a few better ways to get the point across....

However--when this became a political issue and suddenly everyone is railing against the fighter pilot and wringing their hands for the cadet, I did get a bit sickened too. What bothered me the most was the high level attention this got from the officer cadre at the AFA. If he wants to be a fighter pilot, he's going to take crap every once in a while. About 90% of the academy dudes I know are sharp, fit, and reasonably mentally and physically tough--they won't wilt from a stupid email.

When told to offer an apology and offer a ride, I penned my own "version" of what I would write...trying to visualize what would offend AFA leadership the most. ...

Here's what I wrote (written in satire as if I were forced to write the cadet...)


Hey cadet--c'mon down. Between marching to meals, wearing uniforms 6 days a week at age 19, and living in tight quarters (ala the Navy) with over a thousand other dudes and a handful of ugly chicks...flying jets is about all you do have to look forward to.

Imagine your pride when you show up at UPT and proudly inform your instructor go ALSO got to ride in an F-15E. He will be envious and think you are way cool...UNLESS he was a also an AFA cadet and got to do something similiar.

After you are about 10 years into your career, you'll realize you squandered your precious 4 years of adult indoc training getting a few extra airplane rides...just like you do now EVERY SINGLE FRIGGIN' DAY.
However, you WILL still know that extra 4 years of military life kept you from wasting your life attending 100 football tailgate parties, soriority socials, winter formals, or even (gasp) working a part time job and learning some skills BESIDES what the machine wants you to learn. You'll never have to worry about having a live-in girlfriend, skipping class for week to run to Panama City Beach, or (God forbid) partying, socializing, and learning about people who have a completely different outlook on life and different values. You'll learn the art of sneaking on and off campus, beating off without waking your roommate, and occassionally even date raping an ugly chick, and a host of other useful skills needed when you treat 21-22 year adult males like children.

So c'mon down--we've got the life support gear waiting for you. Apparently, most of the OTS and ROTC graduates are out with their girlfriends visiting family, skiing, or otherwise having a good time.

Signed,

A fighter pilot....

The AFA guys who saw this laughed and saw the satire, but even among my bros it offended a few (and non AFA at that...)...so I've learned that what is humorous to me ain't always a riot to everyone else...so THINK before you hit send...

 

[Deuce130]

Albie, I think, for once, you missed the boat on this once. When someone is wrong, the only good response is to admit it. Regardless how you feel about the end result of this, the Major was wrong. Whether or not he was forced to apologize or not, I don't know. If he was, then a simple sorry would do. A sarcastic email about anyone's choice to go to the Academy (I did) or a normal school is a little off base in this situation. Just like some guys choose to fly for SWA, UPS, or FDX, some guys choose to go to Penn State, UVA, or Auburn. So a ROTC or OTS guy never asks for a ride? If they did, would the same email be appropriate? Better yet, would the guy have even written that email had the cadet been a ROTC guy at AU? If he had been a ROTC cadet, how would your satirical apology have sounded? Kind of takes the humor out of it, I think. There's a good possibility that had this kid been a ROTC cadet, the visibility on this would have been zero and there would've been no fallout. Still wouldn't make the major who wrote it any less of a jerk. Also, an apology designed simply to piss people off isn't a real apology. In reality, this whole thing could've been avoided had he simply done the right thing and said he couldn't have a ride but c'mon down to the squadron and hang out if you get the chance. He went on a rant instead, hit "send," and the rest is history. And now, since most fair thinking people realize that said major is a jerk and let it be known, we're supposed to feel sorry for the major? As far as the high level attention it got from USAFA officers, I think the reason they got pissed wasn't b/c they felt sorry for the cadet in question, but rather they simply saw a young guy get treated like crap by a Major with an attitude. That 19 year old cadet may not have had the avenues to bitch or complain about it, but the officers at the Academy did.

 

[AlbieF15]

Deuce,

Your points are all valid. I mentioned I also thought the guy was a bit heavy handed.

I wrote my "notional" note as a humorous dig..nothing more. If it was written to an AU cadet it would probably have included something about athlete's graduation rates and the fine folks at the U of Alabama... Again--it was a chain yank, nothing more.

That guy was a tool. However--the backlash and the PC world also make me cringe.

FWIW...I love doing incentive rides...for crew chiefs, other folks from the base, or even civilians (I've done all....) Watching someone else get fired up about what we do usually puts some spark back into me as well...

 

[Andy]

However--when this became a political issue and suddenly everyone is railing against the fighter pilot and wringing their hands for the cadet, I did get a bit sickened too. What bothered me the most was the high level attention this got from the officer cadre at the AFA. If he wants to be a fighter pilot, he's going to take crap every once in a while. About 90% of the academy dudes I know are sharp, fit, and reasonably mentally and physically tough--they won't wilt from a stupid email.

Albie,
I think that you and several others are jumping to the conclusion that the C3C forwarded the Major's e-mail. I'm willing to bet otherwise.
If, as stated earlier, this Major sent the e-mail to 50 or so other pilots, I can almost guarantee that one of them forwarded the e-mail up the chain. I doubt that the C3C forwarded the Major's reply.


The C3C is a 19 year old kid who dreams of being a fighter pilot. He wrote an e-mail to a fighter wing to try to get a ride. A simple no would have sufficed and been professional.
This reminds me of when I was a T-38 IP eons ago. One of the students wrote a letter to chuck yeager for advice (major mistake; chuckie's got a rep for being one of the biggest a-holes out there). He got a scathing response from yeager. Yeah, I thought that the student was a dork for writing to chuck yeager. But I thought that chuck yeager was a huge f-ing loser for being such a prick to a clueless UPT student who idolized him. (Lack of caps in yeager's name is intentional).

 

[Occam's Razor]

Thread Hijack!

A gave a few motivational rides to Midshipmen and enlisted Marines in the F-4. They were a blast.

It was a given that we'd take the kids supersonic, then fly inverted (so they could pick up chicks with, "There I was, supersonic and inverted..."), and put some g's on them so they could feel the snot trickling down the throat. Then we'd take them up to the "Speed of Heat". (Fly about 1.2m and turn the canopy heat up to max. Then have them feel the canopy. "See? The heat of thermal transfer! Faster than sound, but slower than light! The Speed of Heat!") Great fun!

The rides for the enlisted Marines were the big payoff, though. Every time we took one up, everybody in the shop re-doubled their effort and focus. They all wanted a ride. The impact on morale, especially during a tough deployment, or high-tempo work-up, was measurable.

For 6 months after I took a Plane Captain for a hop (Cpl Roberts, a stellar Marine), he had a huge grin pasted on his face every time I saw him. He spread that enthusiasm all over the line.

 

[bssthound]

Great post, Occam's Razor; great post. Nothing better than seeing a deserving guy get a thrill of a lifetime.

My yeager story: he was speaking at my Guard Unit City's Chamber of Commerce. We tried to work it out to fly an RF-4 out to California to pick him up and fly him back to the speaking engagement. The Guard Bureau squashed it. After yeager's speech one of our senior WSOs approached him and apologized for our not being able to pick him up in a Rhino. yeager looked him straight in the eye and said "I've been flying 15s and 16s all week at Edwards, why would I want to fly with you?" About 10 seconds after getting home my copy of his book went in the trash.

 

[LeonPhelps]

Thpeakin' of inthentive rides...one time I wath bonin' a ladie...and you could call it an inthentive ride, because it was pretheded by some Courvossier and loth of pina colada lotion wath involved!

Thcoreboard, why you call a brother a puthy and then act like he ith being "thenthitive" when he geth offended? Have a nice box of Mexican wine, relax, and play thome Barry White...with a ladie of courth.

 

[Flysher]

Great post, Occam's Razor; great post. Nothing better than seeing a deserving guy get a thrill of a lifetime.

My yeager story: he was speaking at my Guard Unit City's Chamber of Commerce. We tried to work it out to fly an RF-4 out to California to pick him up and fly him back to the speaking engagement. The Guard Bureau squashed it. After yeager's speech one of our senior WSOs approached him and apologized for our not being able to pick him up in a Rhino. yeager looked him straight in the eye and said "I've been flying 15s and 16s all week at Edwards, why would I want to fly with you?" About 10 seconds after getting home my copy of his book went in the trash.

Wow I never realized he was such a jerk. I wonder why he feels the need to act that way?