Big League Beatdown of AFA Cadink

[Hagar17]

Beatdown of AFA Cadink and the Aftermath

Any of you F-15E cats know the REAL story? I guess this Strike Eagle dude got slammed and the C3C asking for an incentive ride got his feelings hurt and ass kissed at the 1-star level, at least.

Word on the street is the Strike Eagle dude got an LOR and grounded. What's the poop?

Emails are sanitized for your protection....

C3C XXXX,



Please let me apologize for the e-mail sent to you by Major XXX
XXXX. His e-mail does not represent the Air Force culture that we all
work so hard to build.



This nation is at war. What this nation needs is a cadre of patriots
who fight and win America's wars. The qualities of character that make
the most lethal warriors are humble, honest, professional Americans who
are compassionate and kind to one another as they take the fight to the
enemy with tenacity, resilience, and a fierce determination to win.



I thank you for committing to the defense of this nation as an officer
in the Air Force. I wish you all the success possible as you work to
sharpen the above characteristics within your own heart and soul.



Allow me to invite you to the 4th Fighter Wing between 21 Dec and 5 Jan
for a flight in the F-15E. We will show you first hand the proud and
honorable culture of great Americans who fight for this nation. We look
forward to you joining our ranks in the very near future.



Very Respectfully,
Col XXX XXXX
Commander, 4th Fighter Wing


Subject: RE: Cadet request for F-15 ride

You've got some brass balls on you, cadet fourth class XXX XXXX
HIV (seriously...is that your real name, lose that 'IV' crap, it just
sounds stupid). Let's break down your message and maybe we can educate
you on a thing or two.

"I'm a cadet at the Air Force Academy."
This message should be over right here. Period dot. Cadets don't troll
for rides, they EARN them through the proper channels just like
everybody else. We've got a long list of maintainers who have earned
awards through this wing to get incentive rides. These guys bust their
asses in the freezing cold and blistering heat and only the lucky few
get the privilege of having a ride. Name me three things you think
you've done to 'earn' a Strike Eagle ride. Seriously. And by the way,
I've read about all the 'hard work' here -
http://www.gdsalumni.blogspot.com/. And I quote "The learning curve was
very steep this past year as I learned about military culture and
doctrine in a pretty stressful environment." Brother, you have no idea
what a stressful environment is.

"trying to arrange a flight with the 333rd Fighter Wing"
Sweet mother of pearl, I think I just threw up in my mouth a little. We
are the 333rd Fighter Squadron, and we are a division of the 4th Fighter
Wing. If you want to snivel a ride from us, you ought to at least get
your facts straight. This is the foreshadowing of your ignorance, let's
continue....

"I have my Secret Clearance"
Your secret clearance doesn't mean f*** all to us. You think we're
going to take you up on a tactical sortie? You think we're going to let
you sit in on classified briefings? You think we're going to hang out
and talk tactics with you? YGBFSM.

"and Physiological Training Card"
Your physiological training card doesn't mean f*** all to us. Remember
all those hard working maintainers I mentioned earlier? Not one of them
has a physiological training card - don't try to impress us with that
crap.

"and can coordinate any AOC approval"
Last time I checked, the AOC didn't run the flying schedule of the 4th
FW or coordination of our incentive flights. Apparently you're not
familiar with chain of command and proper channels. Let me tell you
what this does NOT consist of; it does NOT consist of going VFR direct
to the 333rd Fighter Squadron scheduling shop and bothering our hard
working schedulers. This consists of you talking to your commander,
your commander talking to our commander, somebody in between giving the
approval, and then in the middle of your pipe dream you will be denied
your flight.

"My presence does not impose any limitations on the mission; I'm just
along for the ride."
You couldn't be more wrong. What exactly is it you think we do here?
Do you know anything about the F-15E? Do you know anything about
Seymour Johnson? Do you know anything about the 333rd? Since it would
seem the answer to all of the above is a blatant 'No', I'll clue you in.
In the F-15E, while we do have two seats, the second seat is not an
empty seat that only gets occupied when goobs like yourself call up
looking for a ride. It's a seat for qualified aircrew - we call them
Weapon System Officers. He is an essential part of our mission and we
don't give him the boot for guys who are looking to bum a ride. Also,
the 333rd is a Formal Training Unit. That means that we train young
pilots and WSOs, so to give you a ride, we would either have to boot a
student WSO in aforementioned formal course, or an instructor WSO trying
to teach said student WSO. Get the picture?

"Any further guidance or authorization you can provide on this matter is
much appreciated."
...and I'm spent - Hopefully this will serve as all the guidance you
need. Gents, if there is something I have left out of this mentoring
session with young cadet third class citizen XXXX the HIV, please
feel free to chime in.
Maj XXX XXXX
333rd FS

________________________________
Subject: RE: Cadet request for F-15 ride
Here's the guy who keeps calling up and bugging the scheduling shop
about getting a flight.

Subject: Cadet request for F-15 ride

Lt. XXXX,

I am a cadet at the Air Force Academy trying to arrange a flight with
the 333rd Fighter Wing between 21 December and 5 January. I have my
Secret Clearance and Physiological Training Card and can coordinate any
AOC approval or necessary medical clearance (Form 1042). My presence
does not impose any limitations on the mission; I'm just along for the
ride. Any further guidance or authorization you can provide on this
matter is much appreciated. Email is the best way to contact me
, but my cell phone number is xxxx

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Very Respectfully,
C3C XXX XXXX IV
CS-20 Tough Twenty Trolls
United States Air Force Academy

 

[Occam's Razor]

Ever have one of those e-mails that you regret 2 seconds after clicking SEND?

Yikes!

Who wants to watch Band of Brothers with me?

 

[Deuce130]

I wondered how long before this made it to FI.com. The major who wrote that email was a jerk. His response, his word choices, his tone, his demeanor, his professionalism, etc was embarrasing to the AF. I'm sure he's regretting that email now - especially after a personal apology from his WG/CC to that particular cadet. The worst part of the email was the fact that he CC'd about 50 of his bros - everyone from 2LTs to Lt Col's and asked them to pile on as well. Way out of line, especially from an ADO/Chief of Stan/Eval 0-4 in a flying squadron. But, at the end of the day, a**holes are a**holes no matter what their job, what they fly, or what uniform they wear.

 

[scoreboard]

Deuce, your a *************************. (Puss with a Y). That Major is my Hero, guys like him made the USAF.

Obviously, flying the mighty 130, and theres nothing wrong with that, you probably never had to deal with the thousands, and i mean thousands of "Love letters" a fighter squadron gets asking for rides. We dealt with those thousands tactfully. Unfortunately, this guy has proven himself an ass by bothering these guys numerous times by phoning directly to the schedulers office. Can you say harassment?

So whats a guy to do, let it slide? They obviously tried the nice way and that failed. So now they have two options, make life for him a living hell by going the COC route, or put the punk in his place, they tried the Bro way, and now it backfired. Whats that tell you about this punk? You want him sitting next to you? How many G's do you think this kid is going to get and for how long? I'd say you let Trog the 500lb bench press champion take him up and lay on 9 G's for about 6 minutes, that should do it.

 

[Occam's Razor]

I wondered how long before this made it to FI.com. The major who wrote that email was a jerk. His response, his word choices, his tone, his demeanor, his professionalism, etc was embarrasing to the AF. I'm sure he's regretting that email now - especially after a personal apology from his WG/CC to that particular cadet. The worst part of the email was the fact that he CC'd about 50 of his bros - everyone from 2LTs to Lt Col's and asked them to pile on as well. Way out of line, especially from an ADO/Chief of Stan/Eval 0-4 in a flying squadron. But, at the end of the day, a**holes are a**holes no matter what their job, what they fly, or what uniform they wear.

Yeah, buddy!

The good news is:

1. It's not too hard to spot the jerks in each unit.
2. They are the clear minority.

 

[Deuce130]

Deuce, your a *************************. (Puss with a Y). That Major is my Hero, guys like him made the USAF.

Obviously, flying the mighty 130, and theres nothing wrong with that, you probably never had to deal with the thousands, and i mean thousands of "Love letters" a fighter squadron gets asking for rides. We dealt with those thousands tactfully. Unfortunately, this guy has proven himself an ass by bothering these guys numerous times by phoning directly to the schedulers office. Can you say harassment?

So whats a guy to do, let it slide? They obviously tried the nice way and that failed. So now they have two options, make life for him a living hell by going the COC route, or put the punk in his place, they tried the Bro way, and now it backfired. Whats that tell you about this punk? You want him sitting next to you? How many G's do you think this kid is going to get and for how long? I'd say you let Trog the 500lb bench press champion take him up and lay on 9 G's for about 6 minutes, that should do it.

As I said in my previous post, a**holes are a**holes. Looks like you the fit bill also. You're making a huge leap by claiming this kid harassed the schedulers. If the schedulers can't handle a AFA cadet without whining to a Major, then I'd say the schedulers need a talking to. I didn't realize the scheduling shop of the xxxrd was full of weakdicks. Second, this major did not make the Air Force. In fact, it's guys like him that make the Air Force suck sometimes. If he's your hero, you've got serious problems. I'd bet that he's the first guy in the bar talking smack, bragging about himself, belittling anyone lower rank than him, and kissing the ass of anyone higher than him. This clown showed his true colors when he hit the "send" button and now that he's been exposed as a dickhead you feel sorry for him? He's a punk motherfu*cker who's going to get his *ss kicked eventually if he continues to treat people that way he treated that kid. Probably by a 130 pilot.

And as far as me being a *************************, ******************** you.

 

[Mud Eagle]

The guy that wrote that was my assigned IP when I was going through white jet T-38s. Good dude, actually. Someone I'd absolutely want to fly with when the shooting starts.

Say what you want about the letter -- unprofessional, rude, obnoxious -- because it is all those things. BUT (unlike the too-scared-to-do-anything-because-it-might-jeporadize-my-career crowd) he talked about the White Elephant in the room. That letter is posted in fighter squadron doofer books worldwide. Guys in my squadron all applauded it, and the Maintenance guys love it especially. Last I heard, about 75% of the responses that have FILLED his in-container were positive. The Wing Commander may be offering this kid a ride in one of his jets, but he's going to be hard pressed to find a pilot who isn't going to find a maintenance problem with the jet prior to taxi which forces a ground abort.

When you're in the business of killing people with airplanes for a living, being PC isn't at the top of the priority list. We're not in the business of being polite. I'm sure the people who want everyone in the military to be "warrior monks" (to steal a Tommy Franks term) hates it, though. In the age of a generation of "entitlement kids", a little rudder correction like that letter is what is sometimes needed to remind an AFA cadet where he sits on the food chain. Again, it wasn't the most tactful way of performing that rudder correction, but it made the point.

Deuce130, I'd advise against judging someone you've never met based on one e-mail.

 

[Mud Eagle]

Word on the street is the Strike Eagle dude got an LOR and grounded. What's the poop?

I can tell you with 100% certainty that did not happen. He got a little very minor paperwork, but not grounded.

 

[Benhuntn]

Promotions all around for my friends...

 

[Vandal]

The best part is when he says "he is just along for the ride" and won't cause any limitations on the mission...and he's writing to a F-15E squadron! Clueless little punk ass...probably make general.

P.S. Here's a C-130 vote for the major.

 

[Hagar17]

I can tell you with 100% certainty that did not happen. He got a little very minor paperwork, but not grounded.

Outstanding. Thank you for the info.

I posted this to see what the reaction was in the field, especially the fighter community. It's about what I expected, with 75% of my buds thinking the Eagle dude was out of line and the other quarter thinking he was right on. Personally, I think the Eagle dude was right for blowing up the AFA cadet old school, just not Cc'ing 40 of his buds. Praise in public, criticize in private.

I especially liked the part about the maintenance guys that work their asses off and can't get a ride in an F-15E. The sense of entitlement these days among junior officers (let alone an AFA cadet!) is amazing.

My $.02. Thanks for yours.

Hag

 

[Occam's Razor]

The guy that wrote that was my assigned IP when I was going through white jet T-38s. Good dude, actually. Someone I'd absolutely want to fly with when the shooting starts.

Glad to hear it. Tactical proficiency is important, as is good rapport with your peers. But correct me if I'm wrong here...his e-mail wasn't a tactical situation, and he wasn't dealing with a peer, was he?

Say what you want about the letter -- unprofessional, rude, obnoxious -- because it is all those things. BUT (unlike the too-scared-to-do-anything-because-it-might-jeporadize-my-career crowd) he talked about the White Elephant in the room. That letter is posted in fighter squadron doofer books worldwide.

Perfect! The leadership prinicple of praising in public and criticizing in private takes a back seat to venting in a (your terms here) unprofessional, rude, and obnoxious manner. If this guy's internal Master Arm switch is safety-wired to the ARMED position...he's got issues, regardless of how much fun he is in the cockpit.

The Wing Commander may be offering this kid a ride in one of his jets, but he's going to be hard pressed to find a pilot who isn't going to find a maintenance problem with the jet prior to taxi which forces a ground abort.

I thought integrity was another leadership trait officers were supposed to have. Are you suggesting that Air Force officers would disobey an order to take this kid flying by lying about an aircraft malfunction? Is there a specific list of lawful orders from their commanders that Air Force officers are taught to ignore or disobey? Could you post a copy of them?

When you're in the business of killing people with airplanes for a living, being PC isn't at the top of the priority list. We're not in the business of being polite.

Puh-leeze! Major _____ was not on a mission to kill people when he sat at his keyboard and typed-out that letter. If he is incapable of determining the proper situations to act like a "warrior" and the proper times to act like an officer and a leader...then I feel sorry for his children.

I'm sure the people who want everyone in the military to be "warrior monks" (to steal a Tommy Franks term) hates it, though. In the age of a generation of "entitlement kids", a little rudder correction like that letter is what is sometimes needed to remind an AFA cadet where he sits on the food chain. Again, it wasn't the most tactful way of performing that rudder correction, but it made the point.

BS! What it taught a future leader of warriors is this: When somebody subordinate to you is out-of-line, the best leadership method to employ is public ridcule.

A "cease and desist" response, directed to the cadet, and no one else, would have been an appropriate response.

 

[Future SNA]

Every crowd has one, the only problem is I try not to forget where I came from, as I truly imagine the O-4 year old was probably in very similar shoes one day. But, not knowing any of the other facts, the simple thing is tact goes a long way.

 

[737ski]

C3C had some big nads asking for a ride in an F-15E in the first place--why not a ride in a C-130, C-5, C-17, or KC-135--hmmm, not glamorous enough. Guess things have changed since my time, cell phones vs. waiting 3 months & earning the right to use the pay phone for 5 minutes... Maybe a sense of entitlement has swept across the terrazzo.

I look down & see that my shoes are now brown...

 

[stonewall]

Well, it took me one day to break my resolution to stop posting on FI, but here's my .02.

The Major was way the hell out of line. He probably quaffed a couple before writing it, thought it was funny, and thought he was being a bad ass.

I was the Chief of Scheduling in a fighter squadron. We did not get a thousand letters asking for rides, contrary to what a previous poster stated. We did, however, get a few requests each year around the holidays and the summer from both USAFA and ROTC cadets who were home and wanted to inquire about rides. I guarantee you several upperclass cadets in this dudes squadron told him it was okay and he should try it out if he was going to be close to SJ. We accomodated some cadets when we could, and politely told the others "no-go" when we couldn't. Easy enough. I never thought about blasting any of the cadets.

As far as "earning" a ride, that's a bunch of horses***. I've been in squadrons that have given rides to politicians and celebrities that have done zero to "earn" a ride. I've also given several incentive rides to enlisted dudes over the years for a number of dubious awards, and just two weeks ago gave a ride to a captain in the Med Grp whose claim to fame seemed to be "senior female in squadron." A cadet who asks for a FAMILIARIZATION ride vs an incentive ride (a distinction our frustrated Major seems to not understand) had done nothing wrong. He's just trying to see what his future might be all about.

Scoreboard, this guy should not be your hero. His actions were an embarrasment to the Air Force. Out of all the fighter bros I've talked to about this, both AD and Guard, ROTC and USAFA and OTS, not ONE thinks this guys actions were acceptable. Apparently, his commander didn't think so, either. Feel free to call of us pussies.

As far StrikeEagle guys "faking" a GAB during this cadet's ride, that shouldn't be too hard. Last time I checked, the 4th FW had about a 30% MX delivery rate. My last two 4vX's with the 4th FW turned into 4v2's after step. Major X should talk to someone about getting more jets in the air before he talks about who should and shouldn't get rides.

Anyway, this is old news and it looks like the right thing happened. I'm glad this Major didn't get an LOR, but I'm also glad he got slapped a bit. He was old enough to know better.

 

[scoreboard]

Geesh, you guys are pansies.

 

[stonewall]

Go have sex with your crew chief.

 

[737ski]

"Earning" a ride is not the right word. If you get the opportunity, you better sell your weapon system if you fly with these folks or you've done yourself/your country/your AF a dis-service. I've flown a lot of politicians/celebs & believe me, you better sell it or might lose it.

Back on subject, an AF cadet doesn't have to be motivated to fly, ask me...

C3C needs to concentrate on graduating & getting through UPT. Baby steps, my friend...

 

[FNG_that's me]

So many people here have explained in a calm manner why this cadet's request might be unreasonable. Why could the Major not camly explain it that way in his e-mail.

Dear C3C XXX,

We appreciate you enthusiasm, but we are back-logged with other requests for rides and don't even have enough empty seats to give incentive rides to our own maint personnel. You're welcome to come down to the squadron and have a look at how our operations run.

R/MAJ Nice Guy

Was that so hard? Is there that much lack of leadership/mentoring in today's airforce that this not only happens, but gets strongly defended after the fact. I understand the sentiment of annoyance, but to beat down a cadet who is enthusiastic about his future career seems senseless.

 

[stonewall]

"Earning" a ride is not the right word. If you get the opportunity, you better sell your weapon system if you fly with these folks or you've done yourself/your country/your AF a dis-service. I've flown a lot of politicians/celebs & believe me, you better sell it or might lose it.

Back on subject, an AF cadet doesn't have to be motivated to fly, ask me...

C3C needs to concentrate on graduating & getting through UPT. Baby steps, my friend...

I agree with your comments. PR is good for all of us. As for the cadet, I don't think he or anyone said he needed this ride for motivation. I just take exception with Major X thinking he's qualified to judge who has and has not "earned" an F-15E ride.

Asking for, and possibly getting, a fighter ride while home on leave is not mutually exclusive with concentrating on graduating and getting to, and then through, UPT.