Big cabin airplane impressions

[Gulfstream 200]

I see no empirical evidence to backup that claim. Comparing a Legacy to a Hyundai is laughable. Surely you can do better than that.

At any rate, by the time you get ready to sell your Legacy it will barely be broken in. There will be lots of time left on the airplane and it will probably resell with respectable value.

Oh well... Good luck. <S>

"lots of time left on the airplane"...

What the heck does this mean?

and no, the hyundai rattles much less when cruising along. Far superior ride than that POS Embraer.

 

[ultrarunner]

That's not the only issue Legacy....firstly, to get max range on it, you gotta fly it at LRC, which is slow. Same issue with the CL. Not an issue with the G or the DA.

Secondly, we'd like to go with newer generation flight displays, and not CRT's. The three we're considering meet that criteria.

And thirdly, we don't need that many seats.

I have the entire sales-pitch Legacy stuff here on my desk, and their really big selling point and plug is 16 people going 3000nm. That's not our operation. But occasional dashes to EU with 6 to 8 and to do it at .80 is more of what we're looking for.

I'll concede that there is no hard data to support my opinion on a Legacy's resale value. But there is plenty to support that for the other three, and the G and the DA have a BIG edge on this.

 

[LegacyDriver]

That's not the only issue Legacy....firstly, to get max range on it, you gotta fly it at LRC, which is slow. Same issue with the CL. Not an issue with the G or the DA.

Secondly, we'd like to go with newer generation flight displays, and not CRT's. The three we're considering meet that criteria.

And thirdly, we don't need that many seats.

I have the entire sales-pitch Legacy stuff here on my desk, and their really big selling point and plug is 16 people going 3000nm. That's not our operation. But occasional dashes to EU with 6 to 8 and to do it at .80 is more of what we're looking for.

I'll concede that there is no hard data to support my opinion on a Legacy's resale value. But there is plenty to support that for the other three, and the G and the DA have a BIG edge on this.

Fair enough. Thanks for the clarification. (In all honesty, however, what's the time saving between .76M or .77M and .80M going over the pond? Is it really that much? Just wondering if time is *that* critical.)

Good luck in your search. I hope you guys are happy with whatever airplane you choose.

 

[LegacyDriver]

"lots of time left on the airplane"...

What the heck does this mean?

and no, the hyundai rattles much less when cruising along. Far superior ride than that POS Embraer.

Ah...more gems of wisdom from someone who has never flown the airplane.

What does it mean? It means the airplane is based on an airframe designed for a high cycle environment (the Regionals) and that putting it in a Corporate environment means the thing doesn't even break a sweat. Ten years later the thing is practically brand new. That's what it means.

(Enough about the Legacy. I don't want to hijack the man's thread.)

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Fair enough. Thanks for the clarification. (In all honesty, however, what's the time saving between .76M or .77M and .80M going over the pond? Is it really that much? Just wondering if time is *that* critical.)

Good luck in your search. I hope you guys are happy with whatever airplane you choose.

no those speed differences make a NY-London run about 15-30 mins difference....but when the boss comes up front and asks how fast we are going and you say ".76"...he equates that to about 500mph difference as compared to .82 or .85.

Yes, they know the facts, but comparing their valuable time to aircraft shortcomings or fuel savings is a recipe for disaster IMHO.

Run it as fast as possible unless needing to Long Range to avoid a fuel stop.

next time your boss asks you why you are going slow say "eh, whats the difference boss, its just another 15-30 minutes".

 

[TXDA2000]

As said before, if the bulk of the operation is CONUS, especially lots of short hops, the 2000EX is a great choice. The only time the cabin feels clausterphobic is if every seat is full on a long trip, otherwise it feels expansive.

On our 2000, we made some specific cabin choices based on our type of operation. Our average leg length over 4 years is 50 minutes, even with the occasional trips to Hawaii, DR, and either coast. We have a rather small galley without all the crystal and china on display, then stretched the 10 seats out another 2+ feet and installed longer seat tracks. So, ours is VERY roomy.

The boss looked at GIVSP and felt is was cramped comparitavely.

Because of our type of operation, we purposely talked the boss out of anything bigger.

He dismissed the G200 fairly quickly as being a pile, and we agreed. So far I've only met one operator who praised it, and he's a few posts up.

If we were doing more overwater flights, and we may down the road, it will come down to the G450 or 7X.

Is your principal the type who looks closely at fuel bills? That may be a deciding factor. The DA sips the gas compared to the RR engines.

As far as first hand info concerning maintenance costs, we haven't been in the shop unscheduled for at least two years. The thing doesn't break.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

As said before, if the bulk of the operation is CONUS, especially lots of short hops, the 2000EX is a great choice. The only time the cabin feels clausterphobic is if every seat is full on a long trip, otherwise it feels expansive.

On our 2000, we made some specific cabin choices based on our type of operation. Our average leg length over 4 years is 50 minutes, even with the occasional trips to Hawaii, DR, and either coast. We have a rather small galley without all the crystal and china on display, then stretched the 10 seats out another 2+ feet and installed longer seat tracks. So, ours is VERY roomy.

The boss looked at GIVSP and felt is was cramped comparitavely.

Because of our type of operation, we purposely talked the boss out of anything bigger.

He dismissed the G200 fairly quickly as being a pile, and we agreed. So far I've only met one operator who praised it, and he's a few posts up.

If we were doing more overwater flights, and we may down the road, it will come down to the G450 or 7X.

Is your principal the type who looks closely at fuel bills? That may be a deciding factor. The DA sips the gas compared to the RR engines.

As far as first hand info concerning maintenance costs, we haven't been in the shop unscheduled for at least two years. The thing doesn't break.

who praised a G200? me?

major, huge, incredible peice of junk IMHO. Has left me stranded all over the world.

Only reason I see Gulfstream making them is that when they break they might come pick you up in a G550....at thats a good sales pitch time.

(worked for us!)





and yes, the DA really does sip fuel, and prices seem to be up where everyone is paying attention...I believe DA has been pushing the 7X as 25% less/hr to run that the G450.

salesman talk I know..

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Ah...more gems of wisdom from someone who has never flown the airplane.

What does it mean? It means the airplane is based on an airframe designed for a high cycle environment (the Regionals) and that putting it in a Corporate environment means the thing doesn't even break a sweat. Ten years later the thing is practically brand new. That's what it means.

(Enough about the Legacy. I don't want to hijack the man's thread.)

:0

stop thinking like a regional airplane pilot man!

airframe cycles??!! what do you do - run that hunk of crap between Newark and Cleveland 37X a day?

 

[2000flyer]

who praised a G200? me?

major, huge, incredible peice of junk IMHO. Has left me stranded all over the world.

Only reason I see Gulfstream making them is that when they break they might come pick you up in a G550....at thats a good sales pitch time.

(worked for us!)





and yes, the DA really does sip fuel, and prices seem to be up where everyone is paying attention...I believe DA has been pushing the 7X as 25% less/hr to run that the G450.

salesman talk I know..

You flew a G200 over water?

 

[Gulfstream 200]

You flew a G200 over water?

yes. I was young and stupid.

I now actually VALUE the safety of myself and my passengers.

You got a ADG on that 2000?

What happens when you lose a generator on a tech stop in Shannon?

for the love of God stop risking you life 2000flyer!

 

[2000flyer]

yes. I was young and stupid.

I now actually VALUE the safety of myself and my passengers.

You got a ADG on that 2000?

What happens when you lose a generator on a tech stop in Shannon?

for the love of God stop risking you life 2000flyer!

Lighten up man! Just havin' a little fun there.

As for losing a generator on a tech stop in Shannon, I'd do the same as you (I hope) and call for a new one. However, mine is a couple hours away in France. Yours is in Savannah! (breath my friend....breeeeeeeeeeath!)

This is a very old argument, in my opinion. I've done countless trips over water without a hickup. Could it happen? Of course. Am I needlessly risking the lives of my passengers and myself? Hardly. Is the 2000/2000EX the best plane for doing crossings? Of course not. But for one or two a year it is quite capable.

I'll have to pass this one to a buddy of mine. Their company just unloaded their G4 for a 2000EX and I'd say 40% of their flying is international. He'll certainly get a kick out of this.

 

[banned username 2]

As for losing a generator on a tech stop in Shannon, I'd do the same as you (I hope) and call for a new one. However, mine is a couple hours away in France. Yours is in Savannah! (breath my friend....breeeeeeeeeeath!)

Actually his is in Montreal or Tucson!

Now Mine, MINE comes from Savannah!

As you were...

 

[2000flyer]

Actually his is in Montreal or Tucson!

Now Mine, MINE comes from Savannah!

As you were...

Yours!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Lighten up man! Just havin' a little fun there.

As for losing a generator on a tech stop in Shannon, I'd do the same as you (I hope) and call for a new one. However, mine is a couple hours away in France. Yours is in Savannah! (breath my friend....breeeeeeeeeeath!)

This is a very old argument, in my opinion. I've done countless trips over water without a hickup. Could it happen? Of course. Am I needlessly risking the lives of my passengers and myself? Hardly. Is the 2000/2000EX the best plane for doing crossings? Of course not. But for one or two a year it is quite capable.

I'll have to pass this one to a buddy of mine. Their company just unloaded their G4 for a 2000EX and I'd say 40% of their flying is international. He'll certainly get a kick out of this.

really man, I was kidding!....I was just playing off the threads with old Jesus IV and V pilots who used to do all this stuff and now wont as they fly (low voice) "gulfstreams"

I would have no problem flying a well maintained 2000 over the ocean occasionally.

and no, we have 4 gen's, and can easily dispatch home from Shannon.

you and Falcon Capt can share a room at the Great Southern for a few days (doh!)

(and my guess is they could row a generator from Savannah to Shannon before the French got you one from Paris..)





ya know what, forget it, Im going to pitch those new Legacys to the boss because you know -- I never flew one (Im ignorant)....I CAN, however, say I have flown ON a few with Continental Express (and other fine outfits)....that was really impressive. The quiet cabin, the roomy interior....the quality and value I felt...




.

 

[2000flyer]

really man, I was kidding!....I was just playing off the threads with old Jesus IV and V pilots who used to do all this stuff and now wont as they fly (low voice) "gulfstreams"

I would have no problem flying a well maintained 2000 over the ocean occasionally.

and no, we have 4 gen's, and can easily dispatch home from Shannon.

you and Falcon Capt can share a room at the Great Southern for a few days!

(and my guess is they could row a generator from Savannah to Shannon before the French got you one from Paris..)

FOUR GENERATORS? Oh...that RAT thingy.

I'm takin' it all in stride. Cheers!