Big cabin airplane impressions

[TXDA2000]

As said before, if the bulk of the operation is CONUS, especially lots of short hops, the 2000EX is a great choice. The only time the cabin feels clausterphobic is if every seat is full on a long trip, otherwise it feels expansive.

On our 2000, we made some specific cabin choices based on our type of operation. Our average leg length over 4 years is 50 minutes, even with the occasional trips to Hawaii, DR, and either coast. We have a rather small galley without all the crystal and china on display, then stretched the 10 seats out another 2+ feet and installed longer seat tracks. So, ours is VERY roomy.

The boss looked at GIVSP and felt is was cramped comparitavely.

Because of our type of operation, we purposely talked the boss out of anything bigger.

He dismissed the G200 fairly quickly as being a pile, and we agreed. So far I've only met one operator who praised it, and he's a few posts up.

If we were doing more overwater flights, and we may down the road, it will come down to the G450 or 7X.

Is your principal the type who looks closely at fuel bills? That may be a deciding factor. The DA sips the gas compared to the RR engines.

As far as first hand info concerning maintenance costs, we haven't been in the shop unscheduled for at least two years. The thing doesn't break.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

As said before, if the bulk of the operation is CONUS, especially lots of short hops, the 2000EX is a great choice. The only time the cabin feels clausterphobic is if every seat is full on a long trip, otherwise it feels expansive.

On our 2000, we made some specific cabin choices based on our type of operation. Our average leg length over 4 years is 50 minutes, even with the occasional trips to Hawaii, DR, and either coast. We have a rather small galley without all the crystal and china on display, then stretched the 10 seats out another 2+ feet and installed longer seat tracks. So, ours is VERY roomy.

The boss looked at GIVSP and felt is was cramped comparitavely.

Because of our type of operation, we purposely talked the boss out of anything bigger.

He dismissed the G200 fairly quickly as being a pile, and we agreed. So far I've only met one operator who praised it, and he's a few posts up.

If we were doing more overwater flights, and we may down the road, it will come down to the G450 or 7X.

Is your principal the type who looks closely at fuel bills? That may be a deciding factor. The DA sips the gas compared to the RR engines.

As far as first hand info concerning maintenance costs, we haven't been in the shop unscheduled for at least two years. The thing doesn't break.

who praised a G200? me?

major, huge, incredible peice of junk IMHO. Has left me stranded all over the world.

Only reason I see Gulfstream making them is that when they break they might come pick you up in a G550....at thats a good sales pitch time.

(worked for us!)





and yes, the DA really does sip fuel, and prices seem to be up where everyone is paying attention...I believe DA has been pushing the 7X as 25% less/hr to run that the G450.

salesman talk I know..

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Ah...more gems of wisdom from someone who has never flown the airplane.

What does it mean? It means the airplane is based on an airframe designed for a high cycle environment (the Regionals) and that putting it in a Corporate environment means the thing doesn't even break a sweat. Ten years later the thing is practically brand new. That's what it means.

(Enough about the Legacy. I don't want to hijack the man's thread.)

:0

stop thinking like a regional airplane pilot man!

airframe cycles??!! what do you do - run that hunk of crap between Newark and Cleveland 37X a day?

 

[2000flyer]

who praised a G200? me?

major, huge, incredible peice of junk IMHO. Has left me stranded all over the world.

Only reason I see Gulfstream making them is that when they break they might come pick you up in a G550....at thats a good sales pitch time.

(worked for us!)





and yes, the DA really does sip fuel, and prices seem to be up where everyone is paying attention...I believe DA has been pushing the 7X as 25% less/hr to run that the G450.

salesman talk I know..

You flew a G200 over water?

 

[Gulfstream 200]

You flew a G200 over water?

yes. I was young and stupid.

I now actually VALUE the safety of myself and my passengers.

You got a ADG on that 2000?

What happens when you lose a generator on a tech stop in Shannon?

for the love of God stop risking you life 2000flyer!

 

[2000flyer]

yes. I was young and stupid.

I now actually VALUE the safety of myself and my passengers.

You got a ADG on that 2000?

What happens when you lose a generator on a tech stop in Shannon?

for the love of God stop risking you life 2000flyer!

Lighten up man! Just havin' a little fun there.

As for losing a generator on a tech stop in Shannon, I'd do the same as you (I hope) and call for a new one. However, mine is a couple hours away in France. Yours is in Savannah! (breath my friend....breeeeeeeeeeath!)

This is a very old argument, in my opinion. I've done countless trips over water without a hickup. Could it happen? Of course. Am I needlessly risking the lives of my passengers and myself? Hardly. Is the 2000/2000EX the best plane for doing crossings? Of course not. But for one or two a year it is quite capable.

I'll have to pass this one to a buddy of mine. Their company just unloaded their G4 for a 2000EX and I'd say 40% of their flying is international. He'll certainly get a kick out of this.

 

[banned username 2]

As for losing a generator on a tech stop in Shannon, I'd do the same as you (I hope) and call for a new one. However, mine is a couple hours away in France. Yours is in Savannah! (breath my friend....breeeeeeeeeeath!)

Actually his is in Montreal or Tucson!

Now Mine, MINE comes from Savannah!

As you were...

 

[2000flyer]

Actually his is in Montreal or Tucson!

Now Mine, MINE comes from Savannah!

As you were...

Yours!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Lighten up man! Just havin' a little fun there.

As for losing a generator on a tech stop in Shannon, I'd do the same as you (I hope) and call for a new one. However, mine is a couple hours away in France. Yours is in Savannah! (breath my friend....breeeeeeeeeeath!)

This is a very old argument, in my opinion. I've done countless trips over water without a hickup. Could it happen? Of course. Am I needlessly risking the lives of my passengers and myself? Hardly. Is the 2000/2000EX the best plane for doing crossings? Of course not. But for one or two a year it is quite capable.

I'll have to pass this one to a buddy of mine. Their company just unloaded their G4 for a 2000EX and I'd say 40% of their flying is international. He'll certainly get a kick out of this.

really man, I was kidding!....I was just playing off the threads with old Jesus IV and V pilots who used to do all this stuff and now wont as they fly (low voice) "gulfstreams"

I would have no problem flying a well maintained 2000 over the ocean occasionally.

and no, we have 4 gen's, and can easily dispatch home from Shannon.

you and Falcon Capt can share a room at the Great Southern for a few days (doh!)

(and my guess is they could row a generator from Savannah to Shannon before the French got you one from Paris..)





ya know what, forget it, Im going to pitch those new Legacys to the boss because you know -- I never flew one (Im ignorant)....I CAN, however, say I have flown ON a few with Continental Express (and other fine outfits)....that was really impressive. The quiet cabin, the roomy interior....the quality and value I felt...




.

 

[2000flyer]

really man, I was kidding!....I was just playing off the threads with old Jesus IV and V pilots who used to do all this stuff and now wont as they fly (low voice) "gulfstreams"

I would have no problem flying a well maintained 2000 over the ocean occasionally.

and no, we have 4 gen's, and can easily dispatch home from Shannon.

you and Falcon Capt can share a room at the Great Southern for a few days!

(and my guess is they could row a generator from Savannah to Shannon before the French got you one from Paris..)

FOUR GENERATORS? Oh...that RAT thingy.

I'm takin' it all in stride. Cheers!

 

[G100driver]

Gimme a break on crossing the water in a Falcon 2000EX. Done it lots. Did it 2 x's in Decemeber and once a couple of weeks ago. Yawn.

DOC for Falcon 2000EX is around 1500 hour. I will say the warranty is NOT as strong as Gulfstream. Particularily on labor. Dassault only warranties 6 months on labor.

As for the Legacy in the NAT at .76 or .77, I think you would be hard pressed to operate there. Not a whole lot of 747's and A-330 putting along at those speeds. Sounds like a random route me ... thus more than 30 minutes behind an M.80 airplane.

Good luck on this.

PM me if you have any specific questions or budgetary info on the Falcon 2000EX.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

FOUR GENERATORS? Oh...that RAT thingy.

I'm takin' it all in stride. Cheers!

nope....4 gens, plus a RAT, plus an APU.

guess that plane!

 

[G100driver]

nope....4 gens, plus a RAT, plus an APU.

guess that plane!

The one that NEEDS it

 

[2000flyer]

nope....4 gens, plus a RAT, plus an APU.

guess that plane!

Wow, got me on that one. Can't remember if the Jetstar had a RAT or not. A340? I don't have a clue.

 

[banned username 2]

Wow, got me on that one. Can't remember if the Jetstar had a RAT or not. A340? I don't have a clue.

GLEX...

 

[ultrarunner]

Fair enough. Thanks for the clarification. (In all honesty, however, what's the time saving between .76M or .77M and .80M going over the pond? Is it really that much? Just wondering if time is *that* critical.)

To do NY - mainland EU in the Legacy would require .74 mach which is 430 kts.

One city pair we are looking at is 3100nm.

Legacy = 7.2 hrs

At .82+ in the G and DA the same city pair is covered in 6.4

Putting aside the fact that that leg would be nearly at the range limit in the L (depending upon WX), it's not so much the 1 hr time savings, but one less additional hr of operational costs.

That adds up over time, and looking at the long term, the G has the edge on a cost per hour basis.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

GLEX...

DOH!

I did like that A-340 suggestion! thats the type of thing I need, get up, stretch, go for a long walk....crew rest on a Queen size bed....

now, how do you get them in the hangar....

 

[2000flyer]

GLEX...

Sheez, and you gave me the clues too....Montreal, Tuscon. Doh! Somebody hit me!

 

[ultrarunner]

DOC for Falcon 2000EX is around 1500 hour. I will say the warranty is NOT as strong as Gulfstream. Particularily on labor. Dassault only warranties 6 months on labor.

Good luck on this.

PM me if you have any specific questions or budgetary info on the Falcon 2000EX.

Thanks G, I appreciate it.

No doubt the DA has the fuel edge. And if Marcel would extend the bumper to bumper out to 5 years P & L it would make the decision tons easier.

I conceed that the EX is likely as much plane as we would need and I'd have no problem doing the crossing in one. However, I need to do the dudiligence on the three competing airframes.

I'll PM you in a week or so and pick your brain on some budgetary intel on teh EX.

thanks again.

 

[2000flyer]

DOH!

I did like that A-340 suggestion! thats the type of thing I need, get up, stretch, go for a long walk....crew rest on a Queen size bed....

now, how do you get them in the hangar....

Where the heck is the fourth gen on a Glex? Oh....thats what the pedals on the FO's side are for!