Being let go on probation

[7574EVER]

I read the thread on "being fired"; but, it quickly turned into a "corporate is better than SkyWest" thread.

Today I was forced to resign from my airline due to an unsat on my probie oral. I was at the training center last week and was gittery from hearing the horror stories of the probationary checkrides combined with typical checkride gitters. I was also sick with some stomach virus. I thought I had prepared pretty well for the checkride; but, apparently it wasn't enough. The above factors combined with some holes that formed in my knowledge over the past year lead to a not so great oral.

I was recommended for re-training which I accomplished this week and went in for the re-check yesterday. Everything was going great, I felt confident, blasted through limitations and made it through systems, for the most part, just fine. I did answer something incorrectly on a system before stumbling and trying to fix what I had said previously. So I suppose that was strike one.

Stike two came with the MEL book. Admittedly my knowledge on that was very very weak and had some trouble working my way through the pages. My examiner told me that my flub in the systems didn't concern him so much; but, my trouble with the MEL book did. Apparently it's a hot topic with the FAA right now and pilots have been recently violated for not working correctly with the book. He said in light of that he wanted to get me re-training on the the MEL book. So, wanting to re-train me on the book lead to another unsat. He told me that I would do the re-training and do the ride again. I was later told to meet with my chief pilot upon arriving back in domicie. I did this and was given the offer to resign or "be released" (I assume the it's the nice way of saying "fired").

So, after my long story I come to my question. How does "resigning" from an airline effect future interview or job offers? Does anyone have first hand experience with this situation? What would be the best way to explain this in future interviews?

Being an airline pilot is all I've ever wanted to do (and I was a little dissapointed after being hit with reality once I got there haha). Having this happen to me today was completely out of left field and, needless to say, devistating. I just want to get back on my feet soon. I already have my old CFI job back as well as my old side gig serving tables. So I'm pretty much back where I started a year ago.

I'm already looking at trying to persue a coporate flying opportunity that had been presented to me recently and also randomly met a checkairman from another airline today that, after hearing what happened to me, gave me his e-mail address and told me to send him my resume and he would walk it into the director of training.

Sorry for the rant; but, I'm sitting here with a (okay several) cold one's trying to drown my sorrows and needed to vent. I'd greatly appreciate anyone who has any answers to my questions or any advice in general.

I'd like to make note that I don't hold anything against my, now previous, airline or the people there and don't blame or make any accusations against them.

 

[DrewBlows]

I don't have a whole lot of advice except to stay positive and come up with a really good answer because it will come up on your next interview. Some pointers in that area, never pass the blame to someone else, tell them what you learned (even if you aren't asked directly), and assure them that your experience since you were let go guarantees it won't happen again.

On another note, what airline is giving a "probie oral?" Is it given before or after recurrent ground school? Why the emphasis on the MEL for FO's? It's important to know, but it's not super critical since it is the Captain's responsibility to determine airworthiness. Was your company downsizing anyway?

 

[7574EVER]

On another note, what airline is giving a "probie oral?" Is it given before or after recurrent ground school? Why the emphasis on the MEL for FO's? It's important to know, but it's not super critical since it is the Captain's responsibility to determine airworthiness. Was your company downsizing anyway?

-Yes the oral was after ground and before the sim. I never had the opportunity to go to the sim though.

-There was talk of furlough at my company; but it never happened.

-As far as the emphasis on the MEL. I agree the FO needs to be familiar. The argument about knowing it so well was that if the captain was busy the MEL/CDL is something that I would need to take care of...and take care of correctly.

 

[Freight Dog]

That really sucks!

But there is a way to bounce from it and turn it from a bad experience into a positive one.

It's a good thing you have some leads in what is already a really sh*tty market. I'd take the first thing that comes your way.

NOW... here's the kicker:

What have you learned from this experience?

This is where you have to dig deep. Checkrides and proficiency checks are a part of this profession. You'll have to do them regularly, so you might as well get used to them. The key now is to be prepared for every training event. As you pass your initial training, your recurrent training, your upgrade training, more PIC checks, you should be able to look back and say:

"As embarrassing as it was to fail a checkride and lose my job, it was a defining moment for me as a pilot because I had to overcome this challenge and learn from my mistakes. I wasn't prepared. I had checkride anxiety, got overly worked up and I failed my checkride which in turn cost me my job. I look back on this as a great learning experience. Since then, I passed every checkride or a proficiency check with flying colors."

Don't worry man, failed checkrides happen, it's all how you deal with it and what you learn from it.

 

[acaTerry]

It was wise of you to correct the grammar, as I am a high ranking member of the grammar police....
Seriously, I don't really agree with the bust on the MEL. An FO should have a RUDIMENTARY knowledge of it, not anything like the CA. I think the examiner was a little a-n-a-l there...
That being said, the airlines are so desperate right now that I would not be tooooooooo worried. Instruct a while, save some more money, and use that time to learn more. The thing you have on your side now is time. When you go back and do more interviews for jobs, you will doubtlessly be asked about the resignation, and the conditions of it will likely be discovered. Be honest and turn the question in your favor by showing how you bettered yourself from it. As a former interview CA (and that was when selection was more rigid than now) I can tell you that a guy who fumbled could score a touchdown on the next carry.
Keep your head up and look in front of you. What's past is past.

 

[7574EVER]

Thank you all for the words of encouragement. This thread is going in a much better direction than I had origionally anticipated.

I'm HOPING; but, not really holding my breath about the corporate gig. I'm certainly going to start making some phone calls about it tomorrow. However, I was approached about it nearly a month ago now. While it was fairly recently I don't hold great confidence that there are still open positions.

As far as other airlines....I've seen that Colgan is now hiring and I've also glanced at.....at.....at GoJets. (please keep in mind that I have been drinking -- heavily.) With GoJets I would still be able to live in base and not commute which would be wonderful. I just don't want working there to black mark myself even worse than I already have in the past 24 hours.

 

[LewisU_Pilot]

WOW Bill.....I am so sorry to hear about this. Who was your check airman? Who knows maybe this is a blessing in disguise. You will probably upgrade 8 years before me now. Best of luck and keep me updated on things.

 

[Way2Broke]

Don't take this the wrong way, but what did they want to know about MELs that they were not satisfied with. I have a hard time thinking that this is a difficult subject for someone with 2000 hours. Sounds like they may have been alterative motives. But, don't ever express that with future employers.

 

[laserman2431]

There but for the grace of God go any of us. We can be totally studied up but we all know that an examiner can dig deep enough to our weaker areas. They usually look at the overall performance. Of course. not examiners are not created equal. We have all known about the "one you don't want to get" who is at every training center.

Then there is another case. I'm sure this is not the case with you. I have heard cases where the company will deal with excessive field reports of problems by weeding the pilot out during the probationary evaluation.

A couple jobs back, I worked at a regional 121. The company hired a bunch of pilots from another carrier that had recently gone out of business. These guys and girls did great in training and IOE. Then stories started to get around about how these new hires were showing negative trends in the field with excessive complaining about how much better the old company did things things and how stupid their current employer was. From what I here it just went too far.

I was told those pilots from the carrier that went out of business had a very high washout rate at their end of probation evaluation. The implication was that there was an informal process for line pilots to provide feedback that eventually made its way to the training department. The training department then set up a profile that could lead to a high chance of failure. That's why they call it the 365 day job interview. While any examine can make me look like an idiot, I could make that same examiner look like an idiot by focusing on areas that I have learned in depth and practice everyday.

Sorry to hear about your situation. I can assure you it's not the end of the world. Stay positive and keep flying. Do any safe flying you can find. Maybe try to put some fun back into it.

 

[laserman2431]

BTW. A good guideline for probationary survival is:

-Never call in sick unless you have to go to the hospital

-Never say anything negative about the company even if you are with the pilot who does nothing bu complain.

-Never report late for any reason.

-Never use a commuter clause even if there is one available.

-Never attract any kind of negative attention from anyone.

-Never complain about a fellow pilot unless there is a situation that is so dangerous that your conscience will not allow you to look the other way. If it is necessary to complain, go through prostandards and tell the pilot what you are doing looking him/her in the face.

 

[altimaklr]

At my airline, the mgmt routinely forgets to do probation interviews... go figure. The 1-year recurrent is a watered down oral/checkride profile... no biggy. What airline flunked you on the MEL? And how did you flunk it anyway? Don't you just fill out the book and read the rules for whatever is broke?

 

[mrebuck]

It sounds like the company is Eagle.

 

[7574EVER]

It sounds like the company is Eagle.

What makes you say that?

 

[Propsync]

Out the airline. Who wants a newhire doing MEL's anyway (no offense at all)? All new FO's need to do is know to tell the captain something is broken. After that, the captain writes it up. I can see this as something to go through in cruise during OE as a working scenario. Just reading the book doesn't mean you'll be a write-up wizard on day one. MEL's can be complex, and expecting newhires to know it all is absurd. I'd rather them know more about the systems, so if a MEL comes up, they'll at least know what will be affected. Even on the line, if you had a question about an MEL, ask the captain. Most would be more than willing to show you how it will affect operations.

Long story short, bummer dude. You aren't the first, and won't be the last. Take it as a learning experience and you'll be more successful the next time around.

 

[Popeye0537]

It sounds like the company is Eagle.

I was thinking the same thing....and that would have been his first mistake.

On a side note, if it is Eagle I know at least one pilot who failed his 1 year check ride, resigned in lieu of termination, that we have hired here at Republic.

 

[Princedietrich]

Don't let a failed checkride get you down brother. Everyone has tanked one at some point. Like the other posters have said, just be honest about it when asked and use it as a learning experience. Pilots are subject to a pair of very insidious diseases that hit us at the absolute worst times: white coat syndrome is one and checkride-itis is the other. You get used to the checkrides after a while, but there's always going to be a little twinge of anxiety no matter how jaded you are.

Just enjoy a few cold barley sandwiches, sleep it off, and you'll be fine.

 

[Soverytired]

As far as future employment goes, I'd recommend getting your training folder from Skywest to see what is in it. They should provide this to you for a nominal fee, if anything.

Future employers will get the file, so there's no point sugar-coating what happened if they're going to find out from a PRIA report anything you're trying to hide.

Just my .02. Always best to be honest in an interview, but there's no point volunteering dirt on yourself if you don't have to.

 

[7574EVER]

As far as future employment goes, I'd recommend getting your training folder from Skywest to see what is in it. They should provide this to you for a nominal fee, if anything.

Well if Skywest has my training folder I'd be scratching my head as to why. haha However, you do have really good advice about getting hold of my training folder. I'll get in touch with my old employer and make that happen. It would be nice to see what was said. I guess I do need the info to properly defend myself in the future.

 

[FlyingToIST]

7574ever,
the biggest difference is :
- did you fail the training?
- did you resign? (did it show as such on your records)

You can always request your PRIA records.

It took me two years to recover from the ********************ty treatment i received from SW and found a courage to apply for another regional. I did it and got hired. I was lucky enough that the seniority #1 pilot in my interview agreed with me that i was not treated fairly.

If you are not a hated minority like i am it will be a bit easier for you to get hired when the hiring picks up..

Good luck..

 

[acaTerry]

Where's our "Mesa Sucks" post in here? Shouldn't that have shown up?
Anyways...you may want to try a corporate out fit with a King AIr, small jet etc....findapilot.com is a good place to start (assuming you don't want to instruct too much). Usually these places do not care too much about how you have fared at a 121 place. In any case, like I said before, it's not necessarily the kiss of death that it feels like.

 

[Soverytired]

Well if Skywest has my training folder I'd be scratching my head as to why. haha However, you do have really good advice about getting hold of my training folder. I'll get in touch with my old employer and make that happen. It would be nice to see what was said. I guess I do need the info to properly defend myself in the future.

Oh. Heh. RTFQ, eh?

Seriously though . .. . every pilot should ALWAYS get copies of their employee file when leaving a current company. They're legally required to show it to you as a current employee, and you don't want any surprises when your PRIA gets run.

 

[Goose Egg]

I was thinking the same thing....and that would have been his first mistake.

On a side note, if it is Eagle I know at least one pilot who failed his 1 year check ride, resigned in lieu of termination, that we have hired here at Republic.

That would be bullet #2 that I've dodged.

In any case, I'd love to offer advice, but the only thing that I can think of is "there but by the grace of God go I." Hang in there bro.

-Goose

 

[siucavflight]

747, as we both are now former Eagle employees I have to ask you, what were you probation reports like? It seems to me like you were 'marked' as in no matter what happened they wanted you out of the company, usually three or four negative probation reports will get a new hire marked.
My second question is have you ever considered working over seas? My current employer has a bunch of Legacies and loves Eagle guys, you would have to live in Dubai for two months at a time, but 12,500 a month with no taxes is pretty good. Let me know if I can help.

 

[1080P]

Hey man keep your head up.
If I could give any advice I would do as others have said in getting your training folder, memorizing every word from it and have a bulletproof (and believe it yourself) story on what you've learned from this. You will look very well at an interview if your straight with the board and say " Yea I screwed up but have learned from it, this will never happen again, it was my wake up call". I agree the MEL being grounds for dismissal is very shallow if that's the only reason for the final unsat.
Everything happens for a reason.

 

[amcnd]

As far as future employment goes, I'd recommend getting your training folder from Skywest to see what is in it. They should provide this to you for a nominal fee, if anything..

As long as I have been at SkyWest I have seen very few people fail there probation ride. More fail there upgrade then probation at SkyWest. I don't know why everyone is so scared of the non-union thing. It was way worse when I was at Eagle.

This guy is not even talking about SkyWest. He is TSA or Eagle. My guess Eagle they had very hard probation/check rides.

 

[AWACoff]

There's studying for a checkride and then there's STUDYING for a checkride. The next time you have a chance at a checkride, try to remember that your job is riding on it. Think back to the months before your checkride and ask yourself whether you could have studied more.

 

[Salukipilot4590]

Dang 757 you just havent been having much fun man...I feel for you! Just keep your head up, make sure you get the records and explain what you learned from this in the next interview.

Hope for the best man!

 

[siucavflight]

7474ever,
I am still a member of Eaglelounge, and someone posted your first post on this thread. A few of the guys on Eaglelounge are instructors, apparently they know who you are, and they say that they knew who you were before you even came in for your ride, meaning that your name is one that had been brought to their attention as a "problem child" so whats the story????

As far as resigning goes, now that all the airlines use PRIA any place that you interview will see the two busts and the resignation. Not trying to get you down, just trying to find out the whole story.

Again I am happy to help you out with a good job, just let me know.

 

[yellowfever]

As long as I have been at SkyWest I have seen very few people fail there probation ride. More fail there upgrade then probation at SkyWest. I don't know why everyone is so scared of the non-union thing. It was way worse when I was at Eagle.

This guy is not even talking about SkyWest. He is TSA or Eagle. My guess Eagle they had very hard probation/check rides.

Skywest would have fired him.

 

[siucavflight]

And one of the check airman at Eagle said
"yea, i met the guy briefly. heard stories from people that were there and have seen pictures of the evening that got him and others in trouble."

747, we need some Deets!!!