BA 777 "lands short" at Heathrow

[michael707767]

Fuel starvation ceratinly could have been the problem and I simply don't have the answer at this hour. My experience in the 777 is limited to about 3,500 hours and some significant training experience at both the airline I worked for and Boeing. ..

question for ya. What is the standard flap setting for landing in a 777, 25 or 30? Also I read somewhere that the procedures for most if not all airlines require the use of autothrottles all the way to landing, whether or not it's an autoland. Is that true?

 

[poppi]

Learmount suggested, however, that water could have got into the fuel, frozen at high altitude, thawed as the plane came into land and caused a slush in the tanks. This may have blocked fuel to both engines. Reports yesterday suggested that BA ground staff were warned to check the fuel mix in all its 777s.

 

[Hvy]

question for ya. What is the standard flap setting for landing in a 777, 25 or 30? Also I read somewhere that the procedures for most if not all airlines require the use of autothrottles all the way to landing, whether or not it's an autoland. Is that true?

No...it's not true.

 

[Filkster]

I'll go with an electrical interruption causing a loss of signal to the fadec followed by the gear coming down causing some kind of boeing sofware subroutine to decide the thrust levers are not working and commanding the engines to do whatever they are programmed to do in that situation.

RF
Lets keep Bill Gates out of Aviation.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30400-1301161,00.html

 

[Spooky 2]

No...it's not true.

Sorry Heavy but it is true. The Boeing FCTM states that the AT's should be used for all landings, hand flown or AL. This is a departure from thre B757/767. I don't have my manuals in front of me at this hour but I can quote Chapt. and verse out of the FCTM later today if need be.

Normal landing flaps are 30. Alternate landing flaps are 25. 1 EO flaps are 20 but if you have already gone to 30 and then lose the engine you can do a 30 flap landing. AL are done with 30 only. The airplane is capable of AL with an engine out. BTW, I don't any of this has anything to do with the BA accident.

 

[Britpilot]

But regardless, we all know what most likely occurred.

No, not all of us. Some of us think it may be something less obvious.

 

[Skank]

On just about every page of this thread someone chimes in with "We shouldn`t speculate about this, wait for the official report". I`m here to tell you that we are pilots, and speculation is what we do. I have said it before: this web site is an electronic version of a ready room or pilot lounge. Pilots gather, pilots BS, pilots speculate. Get use to it and get over it. Retired Guy out....

Maybe, but all hat speculation stacked up is about as meaningful as a steaming pile of excrement.

 

[Dizel8]

But regardless, we all know what most likely occurred.

I haven't got the foggiest what occured, the initial report does not mention fuel starvation, they simply mention that thrust did not increase when commanded.

All indications were normal untill 600' AGL. There was a significant amount of fuel spilled on the ground, but thankfully no fire.

At this brief moment in time, it appears the pilots may have saved the day, the future will show if this holds true, but let's hope it does.

 

[bubbers44]

I haven't got the foggiest what occured, the initial report does not mention fuel starvation, they simply mention that thrust did not increase when commanded.

All indications were normal untill 600' AGL. There was a significant amount of fuel spilled on the ground, but thankfully no fire.

At this brief moment in time, it appears the pilots may have saved the day, the future will show if this holds true, but let's hope it does.

I hope so too. I was reading this morning of the tests they were doing on jet fuel waxing on the long polar flights now being flown. Since they flew over the northern half of Russia and the temps over the UK were colder than normal according to one report that day I am sure they will look at that. With an idle descent to 1000 ft with low fuel flow both engines could be affected during the initial spool up attempt and not be noticed until 600 ft. It is too early to know the cause now but running out of fuel was not the cause.

 

[CTflyer]

Wasn't there a 767 on the way to Hawaii a few years ago that had a dual engine flame-out due to some fuel pump/ transfer procedure or something? They re-lite of course.

A UAL 767-300 was coming out of Hawaii on the way to the mainland and during climbout the capt asked the FO to balance the fuel as they were about 400 to 600 lbs heavy on one side. FO then proceeded to shut off the fuel pumps on the lighter side BEFORE opening the fuel transfer and within a few minutes both engines flamed out and they managed to restart them and I think they landed in Kona....

Even though the FO did the fuel balance procedure wrong the engines still should of not flamed out...

 

[Spooky 2]

Sorry Heavy but it is true. The Boeing FCTM states that the AT's should be used for all landings, hand flown or AL. This is a departure from thre B757/767. I don't have my manuals in front of me at this hour but I can quote Chapt. and verse out of the FCTM later today if need be.

Normal landing flaps are 30. Alternate landing flaps are 25. 1 EO flaps are 20 but if you have already gone to 30 and then lose the engine you can do a 30 flap landing. AL are done with 30 only. The airplane is capable of AL with an engine out. BTW, I don't any of this has anything to do with the BA accident.

Finally got to the books and the statement in the Boeing 777 FCTM, page 1.33, dated Oct 31, 2007 says the following. Auto Throttles; "Autothrottle use is recommended during all phases of flight. When in manual flight, autotrotlte use is also recommended, however manual thrust control may be used to maintain pilot proficiency." So there you have it. Not exactly carved in stone, but pretty darn close in Boeing speak.

Hope this helps more than it hurts.

 

[-FlyAuburn-]

Originally Posted by Jetjockey
Any landing you can walk away from.........................


One passenger broke their leg and probably didn't walk off. So I guess that means it wasn't all that great a landing. Ha!

 

[DiamondFlyer]

Since everyone's speculating, what happens if you sucked up a flock of birds? Is it possible to suck up a flock to the point of a compressor stall, or worse?

Reason I ask is that I nearly wiped out a flock in my Baron the other day, and I suppose I couldn't help adding to the speculation.

 

[bubbers44]

Yes it is possible but wouldn't they have noticed the birds fly by?

 

[bubbers44]

The pilots didn't know why the engines failed to respond according to the captains statement. He would have mentioned encountering a flock of birds.