B19 Flyer

[Hogprint]

NJ is handcuffed by a CBA

You've stated this several times and I've challenged you at least twice about it. How is NJA handcuffed by a CBA they helped negotiate?

 

[B19 Flyer]

You've stated this several times and I've challenged you at least twice about it. How is NJA handcuffed by a CBA they helped negotiate?

United, American and Delta all had industry leading contracts.

None of them were "hampered" 18 months after they were signed and if the same question was posed as you are today the answer would have been no.

However, by the end of the 2nd year, the most unionized airline was in bankruptcy (United)and the next unionized was teetering on bankruptcy (American). The least unionized was still more than 2 years away (Delta).

So while the NJA contract may not appear to be hampering anybody yet, historically, industry leading contracts stretch the limits, even in good times.

My predicition last fall (even before the turndown) was the NJA was going to have to suck it up before the end of this year. We still have 9 months to go.

When it comes to unions, history always repeats itself, it's rare that a union learns from their mistakes. All of the situations above could have been avoided by the union acknowledging the change in the economy.

NJA? They can't adjust as well as the others based on the CBA. When the cuts come, they will be larger and deeper. More people will be hurt than all the other fracs combined.

 

[fischman]

More people will be hurt than all the other fracs combined.

NetJets is bigger than all the other fracs combined. It's like saying you have farther to fall off the summit of Mt. Everest than off Pike's peak. DUH!!!

 

[CA1900]

Admit it, Fisch -- you're just a "cowboy" because you won't accept a broken airplane.

 

[fischman]

Cowboys are awesome.

 

[wacoflyr]

After I implied that this guy was narcissistic and he called me an a$$, I tried to engage him in an open, honest discussion about what recourse we pilots have. As always, he has dodged the tough questions. He cut off the conversation when I made direct arguments against his major points.
It is clear to everybody on this forum that pilots, as a group, are underpaid, and that we have lost somewhere between a third and a half of our earning power in the last 40 years. Management, of course, has gained considerable earning power, at our expense. What do we do about it? B19 would have us "stand on our own two feet" instead of organizing. I asked him how I, an underpaid individual, would then negotiate my pay? Now he states that I am paid to scale, and knew this when I became a pilot, thereby refusing to answer a simple, direct question that is at the heart of his whole argument. I guess standing on my own two feet isn't going to help, after all.
He knows that the only way we can negotiate is to organize. But you won't admit that, will you B19? You want us to act as individuals, so that you can underpay us as a group. You say you suffered working at a carrier that had unions. Look at all the pilots that have suffered layoffs while management took bonuses. Remember AMR after they negotiated pay cuts from the flight attendants? It cuts both ways, B19. If you don't give us a way to negotiate, we will create our own.

It would be refreshing if you respond to my points, but I don't think you will. You can't, really. You are wrong.

Wacoflyr

 

[G4dude]

After I implied that this guy was narcissistic and he called me an a$$, I tried to engage him in an open, honest discussion about what recourse we pilots have. As always, he has dodged the tough questions. He cut off the conversation when I made direct arguments against his major points.
It is clear to everybody on this forum that pilots, as a group, are underpaid, and that we have lost somewhere between a third and a half of our earning power in the last 40 years. Management, of course, has gained considerable earning power, at our expense. What do we do about it? B19 would have us "stand on our own two feet" instead of organizing. I asked him how I, an underpaid individual, would then negotiate my pay? Now he states that I am paid to scale, and knew this when I became a pilot, thereby refusing to answer a simple, direct question that is at the heart of his whole argument. I guess standing on my own two feet isn't going to help, after all.
He knows that the only way we can negotiate is to organize. But you won't admit that, will you B19? You want us to act as individuals, so that you can underpay us as a group. You say you suffered working at a carrier that had unions. Look at all the pilots that have suffered layoffs while management took bonuses. Remember AMR after they negotiated pay cuts from the flight attendants? It cuts both ways, B19. If you don't give us a way to negotiate, we will create our own.

It would be refreshing if you respond to my points, but I don't think you will. You can't, really. You are wrong.


If we voluntarily work for what we are paid, then we are not underpaid. The marketplace compensates us adequately, or else there would be a shortage of pilots in the employment pool. I have a successful business on the side, and I suggest any pilots desiring more money do the same. There doesn't appear to be any more salary increases in the offing any time soon, dear colleagues.

Wacoflyr

If we voluntarily work for what we are paid, then we are not underpaid. The marketplace compensates us adequately, or else there would be a shortage of pilots in the employment pool.
I have a successful business on the side, and I suggest any pilots desiring more money do the same. There doesn't appear to be any more salary increases in the offing any time soon, dear colleagues. Study up, learn other skills, and create more income. Maybe we all will survive President Obama's well intentioned dismantling of the economy.

 

[PCL_128]

However, by the end of the 2nd year, the most unionized airline was in bankruptcy (United)

The most unionized airline is SWA, not UAL. As someone who claims to be so informed on 121 matters, I would expect you to know this.

The most unionized airline has never been in bankruptcy. In fact, they've never been close. The most unionized airline has been growing by leaps and bounds for decades. The most unionized airline is the biggest domestic airline by a considerable margin, and is still planning on additional growth in years ahead. The most unionized airline has been continuously profitable for a record span.

Anything else you want to know about the "most unionized airline?"

 

[FR8DOG777]

You know, B19, there is a very easy way to put to bed all the misinformation about who you are: simply reveal your identity.

I'll show you exactly what I mean: BeeDubya is Brian Ward, NetJets' Citation X Pilot and NJASAP Steward.

Done. No questions about who I am.

Fraternally,
Brian

Hey Brian how you doing these days? Why don't you educate O'l 19 about our reg following law abiding management and your free all expense paid trip to cgf for not wanting to fly a plane with half the circuit breakers in the panel popped. Good times, of course MANAGEMENT didn't have to fly the aircraft or risk getting ramped did they?

 

[Flex-ible]

Anything else you want to know about the "most unionized airline?"

Serious question: what does it mean to be "most unionized"? I thought it was like being pregnant: either you are or you are not.